If someone wants a secular, democratic, communist, independent Tibet. Then sure, whatever, that wouldn't bother me.
But if someone wants a Tibet run by reincarnated theocrats, they are a fucking clown.
I actually saw some anarchists say China was the lesser of two evils which I was really glad about.
Listen sweaty, slavery/serfdom is part of Tibet’s cultural Heritage and the CCPs brutal suppression of that practice is cultural genocide.
“I knew a Buddhist once, and I’ve hated myself ever since. The whole thing was a failure. He was a priest of some kind, and he was also extremely rich. They called him a monk and he wore the saffron robes and I hated him because of his arrogance. He thought he knew everything.
One day I was trying to rent a large downtown property from him, and he mocked me. ‘You are dumb’ he said. ‘You are doomed if you stay in this business. The stupid are gobbled up quickly.’ ‘I understand’ I said. ‘I am stupid. I am doomed but I think I know something you don’t.’ He laughed. ‘Nonsense’ he said. ‘You are a fool. You know nothing.’ I nodded respectfully and leaned closer to him, as if to whisper a secret. ‘I know the answer to the greatest riddle of all,’ I said. He chuckled. ‘And what is that?’ he said. ‘And you’d better be right, or I’ll kill you.’
‘I know the sound of one hand clapping,’ I said. ‘I have finally discovered the answer.’ Several other Buddhists in the room laughed out loud, at this point. I know they wanted to humiliate me, and now they had me trapped – because there is no answer to that question. These saffron bastards have been teasing us with it forever. They are amused at our failure to grasp it.
Ho ho, I went into a drastic crouch and hung my left hand low, behind my knee. ‘Lean closer,’ I said to him. ‘I want to answer your high and unanswerable question.’ As he leaned his bright bald head a little closer into my orbit, I suddenly leaped up and bashed him flat on the ear with the palm of my left hand. It was slightly cupped, so as to deliver maximum energy on impact. An isolated package of air is suddenly driven through the Eustachian tube and into the middle brain at quantum speed, causing pain, fear and extreme insult to the tissue.
The mink staggered sideways and screamed, grasping his head in agony. Then he fell to the floor and cursed me. ‘You swine!’ he croaked. ‘Why did you hit me and burst my eardrum?’ ‘Because that,’ I said, ‘is the sound of one hand clapping. That is the answer to your question. I have the answer now, and you are deaf.’ ’Indeed’ he said. ‘I am deaf, but I am smarter. I am wise in a different way.’ He grinned vacantly and reached out to shake my hand. ‘You are welcome,’ I said. ‘I am after all a doctor.’
If I pretend to be Tibetan because my hippie orientalism causes me to mystify foreign cultures, I can relieve the existential burdens of capitalism on myself while not challenging my class position or material conditions. As long as this slavemaster exists, I can assume he has ancient supernatural wisdom because he speaks a different language and dresses silly and then use that as my identity.
Coutnerpoint: western mysticism is good because it allows people in these coutnries to scam ignorant western hippies and weirdos.
I heard somewhere that he stopped supporting Tibetan separatism. Can someone confirm this or have I been had?
I remember going to a talk by the Dalai Lama at a US college, and he basically said (can’t remember the exact wording but this was after he was introduced by that state’s senator) that he was a Democrat.
Dalai Lama = :LIB:
(I mean serfdom is pretty lib - hey they/their ancestors signed a contract. Free market, heard of it?)
i feel like i should have known this. if i didn't know this, i feel like a lot of other people probably don't. we need more content like this.
We fucking shout that every time the Dalai Lama is brought up, not our fault you don't listen the first, second, third, tenth, fiftieth time we do
Of course, I'm happy that someone finally allowed themselves to learn the truth - but that's just it - the only thing that prevents anyone from learning that the Dalai Lama is a fucking theocratic slaveowner is themselves. Acting like we're the ones not doing a good job spreading the message is to ignore the fact that we are doing what we can, it's just that others have to accept it, we can't learn it for them
I don't particularly feel like coddling your ignorance, given that it's almost a guarantee that I or someone like me has told you that the Dalai Lama is a fucking slaveowner and should not be given any attention or power, only to be met with a "fuck off, CPC shill" or something similar
And true, perhaps I've been slacking off on screaming about the Dalai Lama over here on Chapo. But don't pretend that Chapo is the only place where discussions can be held
I don’t particularly feel like coddling your ignorance
This will bring the revolution any day now, I can feel it
Oh I'm sure you weren't, you just scream free tibet at me to own the libs is all
Hey once you western leftists start pushing back against imperial propaganda I'll stop
I'm this hostile because of your implication that I or others like me aren't doing what they can to educate others on Tibet (and China, and non-western countries as a whole) because we absolutely are. The problem is that when we bring up the Tibetan slaves (or anything else, for that matter), people just say "that's not true!" or some variation.
It's not that people aren't teaching, it's that people refuse to learn
i literally advocated for more of this kinda content and showed you that there hasn't been any of it for months. i learned something new today, which is great. on sites like reddit there definitely are assholes who do nothing but shit on communism, but we all left reddit for that very reason. in this instance you got it wrong, which is fine, everyone gets it wrong sometimes.
just saying, not everyone is unreachable, some people are just un-informed, and by being an ass you don't do anything for your cause.
Every time I bring up the Dalai Lama's slaves I get like 50 replies about how they weren't actually slaves, how it's CPC propaganda, how slaves under the Dalai Lama lived a better life than the average citizen in China, how they didn't have slaves, etc.
It's not that there's a lot of propaganda (which, granted, there is). It's that people cling to their propaganda and nothing we do will loosen that grip. That change has gotta come from within
Well then maybe the problem isn't that tankies aren't shitting on the Dalai Lama enough, it's that the western left lends credence to this propaganda and should fight it instead
This question is why we need to retire the "Castro freed slaves" meme.
People question stuff that doesn't fit with mainstream historical narratives. If they do some cursory digging and find out you're right -- as they will if you point out Tibet had slaves before communists freed them -- they'll trust you a bit more and be a bit more skeptical of sources that say otherwise/gloss over it. But if that cursory digging turns up something like "Cuba abolished slavery in 1886," they'll think you don't know what you're talking about, and they'll discount whatever else you're saying or write you off entirely.
I've tried it both ways, both in person and online. I've tried radical language and contestable claims like "shitty wage labor is wage slavery," and I've tried describing awful exploitation in terms that can't really be argued. The latter works far better, because someone who's still a little skeptical can't pick apart one of your points and derail the whole conversation. And you get that even from people who you can move left on other issues.
See assuming that anyone other than actual capitalists or mobilized reactionaries is "probably not a lefty in waiting" is pretty problematic for actually building a mass movement. There are plenty of people who would balk at being presented with what seems to be (and in some sense genuinely is) factually incorrect information who are absolutely reachable. As for the bit about cultural hegemony, there's a big difference between backing down from being thoroughly descriptive or fully radical in our claims, and avoiding counterproductive rhetorical flourishes. One costs us substantive and important parts of our program, the other costs us nothing but a few incendiary words
Even if you can't convince the person you're talking to, it's better to put forward a more coherent message for the people watching. It's always better to have fewer flaws in what you're saying, as it makes it more difficult for people to dismiss you out of hand (even if they're trying to!). There are people out there who value coherency, and a lot more people who'd at least like to tell themselves they do. Having a more factually sound case absolutely does help reach them, and on the internet at least you can never assume none of them are watching. Nothing is lost by not using imprecise and indefensible language, you can still make the actual atrocities involved very clear, and at least some small amount is gained. Given this, I fail to see any reason to engage in those sorts of rhetorical practices
Don't forget that the theocracy's response to China giving the peasants some rights was to collaborate with the CIA. And do you know what you get when you collaborate with the CIA? Death squads babeeeeeey
Can't remember where I read it but Tibet was one of the CIA's worst jobs, they constantly dropped tons of "freedom fighters" into Tibet to never hear from them again lmao. rest in piss
Is this the same Dali Lama as in Mao's time? Cause he's gotta be old as heck.
I think he was like, 11 when he fled Tibet.
He’s also not pro-Tibetan independence FYI, he openly says Tibet should remain part of China and the Lamas should only serve religious functions not political ones.
Okay, I’m remember half this shit from an article some dude on the old sub linked me to, and that was like 6 months before it got nuked so it’s been a while.
But yeah made it sound like he recognized the fucked up nature of the old system and had no interest in reestablishing the theocracy. But I may be remembering shit wrong.
I’ll have to try and dig it up when I’m off work. It was a while ago but if I remember correctly he pretty much said he has no interest in resuming political authority, he just wants more autonomy for Tibet but is fine with it ultimately staying part of China.
I could be wrong but he was probably a kid back then when he became the Dalai Lama lol.
Right, right, I remember now, they look for a child reincarnation when the old one dies.
A zen group I periodically attended in the far-off past before covid gathered in some big space they shared with a bunch of local Buddhist groups but it was clearly mainly owned by a Tibetan one, the space had a bunch of Free Tibet posters and images of the Dalai Lama. Always kinda felt like there was some foreign influence thing going on
Cool tapestries and statues though
