Honestly, I don't care for a lot of the discourse around tone policing. True, criticism of tone can be used in bad faith to avoid engaging with the substance of what someone is saying, but the tone is part of what's being said and can't be separated from it. It just feels very debate broey at times, "Aktually the biggest brained people only see the content of the message and not the tone. You, my friend have committed the logical fallacy of tone policing"
It can definitely be used in bad faith and weaponized, like most things. I think it's valid to bring up now, because in the announcement post there were several people saying things along the line of "Actually, I agree with you, but since I didn't like your tone I'm lodging a complaint."
can you link the post where it was announced? I cant seem to find it anywhere and i missed the drahma
edit: wait i found it nvm sry
Thank you! dental hygiene is a very important topic for this sub to discuss and honestly im a little offended we havent talked about it enough here.
Personally, I like the "bully the libs" style, in practice it seems to have been less useful here but was more useful during the transphobia purges for example. Being skeptical of authority is obviously fine, but running a website under capitalism has different considerations than running a socialist society. I'd love for people to be able to build a true posting collective, where it is democratically run by the entire community which shares the labor of running it. This simply cannot be put into practice here: we are a small community vulnerable to outside wreckers, and whatever veneer of democratic control one might institute (mod elections, even admin elections), the material reality is that whoever pays for the website, and whoever holds the keys, can shut it down on a whim. What really makes authority dangerous is how it can be used to create oppression, and we really aren't oppressed because an admin said something mean to us.
As for the tone policing point, that's what it is. It's criticism of the tone in which the points were delivered. The thing to do is to argue why this instance of tone policing is correct, not to say it isn't (not saying that you said this, but rather elsewhere I've seen people deflect).
Criticisms of "tone policing" make sense in real debates about real matters because it's a deflection from an actual argument to zone in on tone over the more substantive matters of the argument. Criticisms of "tone policing" in the context of the administrators of a community space because of how they are addressing a community issue isn't even half as relevant, personally.
Like if one of your friends was a condescending asshole about your preferences every time y'all tried to make plans, and you confronted them about it, getting told you're "tone policing" probably wouldn't fly, would it?
I think the relationship between admins of this site and users is more the latter than the former, or at least it should be, I think, based on the goals of this site. I wasn't bothered by the posts, and I don't really care about the name (don't love hexbear though), but I can see why people would be turned off by the more condescending posts and reactions to the users who do have criticisms.
Interesting. I personally wasn't really offended by it since the post was directed at the community in general (i.e. not anyone in particular). I have asd so my thinking here mightnot be reflected by the majority, I realize. In social media in general you get an odd mix of both directly social and parasocial relationships which can be kind of hard to navigate to be sure.
I wasn't referring strictly to the announcement post or of the discourse on this site specifically, but rather more generally.
We are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all
Please be kind and courteous to your fellow leftists. There’s no need to be mean or rude unless it's a chud.
Respect that people have differences of opinion
We will exclude you from interaction if you insult, demean or harass anyone.
Moderators are held to a higher standard than other community members. If a moderator creates an inappropriate situation, they should expect less leeway than others.
We believe in unrestrained criticism of power
Power to the posters.
TLDR; Yes, we have a prescribed tone. If users think mods are not abiding by the standards, they do have the right to criticise them.
Completely irrelevant and dodging the actual discussion.
I just think the admins have been behaving childishly.
Find a better bit. Something actually funny. Don't heap into the drama pile if you don't actually want to discuss it.
the discourse of tone policing is weird because maybe im old school, but tone policing was created by black activists and describes a phenomenon experienced by black people...its since been stretched to be something that is experienced by all marginalized people, (fine, but depending on the identity it holds different water when used but FINE, ive hollowed out my mind and come to terms with the disgustingly short life cycle of black phrases just being used by black people okay???) regardless "tone policing" isnt meant to be used by (non poor) white people to refute any criticism of their shit takes. tone policing is specifically tied to the oppression BLACK people go through, when trying to vocalize their oppression.
"tone policing" feels like yet another black phrase / oppression-based philosophy white people (even white leftists) have colonized
like once i was accused by a white person of tone policing when I pointed out that the chapos have said some weird racially insensitive shit before. Black people did not die for that // there are different ways to say "youre fixating on my tone/display of emotion when im being rightfully emotional about this topic because the topic is literally about my existence, in order to ignore the thing im emotional about ," that dont evoke tone polciing --trust me, ive been seeing white women do it for decades. (although non blacks have bastardized tone policing to be something that also includes the need to deregulate the emotions of allies, in additon to those directly effected). hell you can even continue to misuse gaslight and toxic if youre so desperate
it doesnt really matter because we live in a postmodern S O C I E T Y where words dont have meaning and cultural history of colonized peoples has even less meaning but the next time that you use "tone policing" to try to knock down a mod on a tiny website down a few pegs, just remember the origin of the phrase, and how it usually still applies to a black person being told that their reaction to their existence being devalued (which usually isnt even an emotional reaction in the first place, its just threatening) is uncivilized and wonder "are my beefs in the same category"
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a state is a good guy with a state"
~Lenin idk
It was ironic at first, but now I genuinely want to be dominated by the Resident Evil vampire lady. :sadness:
One time as a kid I fell off my grandma's roof retrieving a golf ball and no one believed that's what happened
We were actually playing a game where we would throw golf balls on the roof and attempt to have it roll to the other side. Sometimes they would get stuck and I'd get a ladder. One time I fell and my injury was blamed on my cousin even though he wasn't even there. I think about this incident sometimes.
I stood up for him and said I hurt myself, but the adults claimed I was just being bullied. He's an extremely reactionary Qanon person now.
That joke was basically as bad as "learn to code" but for music nerds.
VOLCEL POLICE! NOBODY CUM!
We're bringing in you in for anti-volcel propaganda, this cannot go unchallenged on this site
