I think the vegans are correct, but I also think meat tastes good and overall beating people over the head telling them their consumption choices (which is basically the only choices they get to make day to day) are bad is alienating.
I like how you completely disregarded my other point though lol but okay.
If you really wanna get to my point I'm mexican, I like meat, tons of my cultural dishes use meat, I'm not gonna give up eating it just to make white people feel better about the shitty things their governments have done
Reverse cultural chauvinism isn't actually going to help anyone. You guys have to divert the conversation from the harm of animals to other tangential issues every time like this. Just chill out.
Not who you are replying too, but the vast majority of militant vegans that I've met are upper middle class white people (not all, mind you) This group has a tendency to impose it's culture and values on other people, while also being responsible for upholding systems of oppression.
This group has a tendency to impose it’s culture and values on other people.
:this:
Like that post oh here where a vegan told an indigenous person that didn't like their bit to go "read settlers". Like wtf. Then another vegan accused the indigenous person of "playing the race card". How completely tone deaf can people be?
it's more like "damn those privledged people are trying to shame me for my own culture, while they're responsible for most of the suffering in the world. they should probably just shut the fuck up and deal with their own issues"
I know. I don't actually think that person is dumb, I just don't think they've ever thought about how their views would be perceived by a different race. I don't want to make it seem as if I don't care about the climate crisis or that eating meat is a life or death struggle for me, I've been trying to eat less meat for health reasons, but it can be irritating hearing that me and mine should do something about this when I fix affluent white people's ACs all the time and they couldn't give a care in the world.
again, im not even the person when who you were originally replying to, but I still think that many non-white people's responses to white people acting as if they have any sort of moral superiority on any position is instantly telling them to shut the fuck up. The correct thing to do is to talk about veganism without being such a douchebag about it, you won't get the same negative response.
surely then you can understand how quickly that slides into an "ethical consumption under capitalism" argument, and how that's not going to sway everyone
What I'm saying should be completely obvious. When faced with the climate emergency that is largely the fault of Western white people for a multitude of reasons, why should I adjust my consumption habits? When the average American family's carbon footprint dwarfs anything my family could produce, when your billionaires burn enough fuel to make a villages footprint a rounding error, when your people are going to use the climate crisis as an excuse to vilify my people and shun them when the crisis your people created is at your doorstep.
I agree this shouldn't be a personal decision. People shouldn't be made to feel guilty about their consumption, or anxious about having to do a moral choice in the first place. All of the consumption choices should be ethical and sustainable. Unfortunately, they are not, so the individual lives with the burden.
The basis of traditional mexican food is plants based. Maíz, frijol, calabaza, chile, tomate, nopales, arroz, etc. Veganism is not incompatible with your culture, it's probably one of the easiest ones to convert.
The point is not to make white people feel better, it's to do something about the problem, to change the culture. Do you at least agree that (certain aspects of) the culture needs to change, and that that involves you?
I think the vegans are correct, but I also think meat tastes good and overall beating people over the head telling them their consumption choices (which is basically the only choices they get to make day to day) are bad is alienating.
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I like how you completely disregarded my other point though lol but okay.
If you really wanna get to my point I'm mexican, I like meat, tons of my cultural dishes use meat, I'm not gonna give up eating it just to make white people feel better about the shitty things their governments have done
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Clearly
No "the hamburger" isn't a cultural dish.
I'm not surprised you can't comprehend what I'm saying whitey. I know considering the point of other races isn't your strong suit.
No they typically eat meat too, they're just more wasteful in one lifetime than an entire village could ever be.
this is what they took from you
:amerikkka-clap:
:michael-laugh:
:amerikkka-clap: :rage-cry:
Reverse cultural chauvinism isn't actually going to help anyone. You guys have to divert the conversation from the harm of animals to other tangential issues every time like this. Just chill out.
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Not who you are replying too, but the vast majority of militant vegans that I've met are upper middle class white people (not all, mind you) This group has a tendency to impose it's culture and values on other people, while also being responsible for upholding systems of oppression.
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:this:
Like that post oh here where a vegan told an indigenous person that didn't like their bit to go "read settlers". Like wtf. Then another vegan accused the indigenous person of "playing the race card". How completely tone deaf can people be?
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it's more like "damn those privledged people are trying to shame me for my own culture, while they're responsible for most of the suffering in the world. they should probably just shut the fuck up and deal with their own issues"
For the first time in this thread, I feel seen.
It's really not that hard to understand.
I know. I don't actually think that person is dumb, I just don't think they've ever thought about how their views would be perceived by a different race. I don't want to make it seem as if I don't care about the climate crisis or that eating meat is a life or death struggle for me, I've been trying to eat less meat for health reasons, but it can be irritating hearing that me and mine should do something about this when I fix affluent white people's ACs all the time and they couldn't give a care in the world.
It's just frustrating is all.
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again, im not even the person when who you were originally replying to, but I still think that many non-white people's responses to white people acting as if they have any sort of moral superiority on any position is instantly telling them to shut the fuck up. The correct thing to do is to talk about veganism without being such a douchebag about it, you won't get the same negative response.
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Why do yall become instant reactionaries when anything negative about white people crops up
Because the site is like 90+% white ppl lol
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You've gotta be fucking kidding me lmfao
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why the fuck are you on this website lmfao, in what world did i say anything remotely close to that?
Don't bother responding to these people they're just wreckers.
hey dash :im-vegan: but what, specifically, are you expecting them to feel shame for with regards to eating meat
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surely then you can understand how quickly that slides into an "ethical consumption under capitalism" argument, and how that's not going to sway everyone
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that's exactly my point, yes very good
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Fuck off. Log off.
What I'm saying should be completely obvious. When faced with the climate emergency that is largely the fault of Western white people for a multitude of reasons, why should I adjust my consumption habits? When the average American family's carbon footprint dwarfs anything my family could produce, when your billionaires burn enough fuel to make a villages footprint a rounding error, when your people are going to use the climate crisis as an excuse to vilify my people and shun them when the crisis your people created is at your doorstep.
Why should I give a fuck?
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I agree this shouldn't be a personal decision. People shouldn't be made to feel guilty about their consumption, or anxious about having to do a moral choice in the first place. All of the consumption choices should be ethical and sustainable. Unfortunately, they are not, so the individual lives with the burden.
The basis of traditional mexican food is plants based. Maíz, frijol, calabaza, chile, tomate, nopales, arroz, etc. Veganism is not incompatible with your culture, it's probably one of the easiest ones to convert.
The point is not to make white people feel better, it's to do something about the problem, to change the culture. Do you at least agree that (certain aspects of) the culture needs to change, and that that involves you?
Yes they should