Earlier today a vegan made a post with a white supremacist dog whistle by satirizing a person who's people "have been eating dog for thousands of years". Another Indigenous person and I did our best to call out the white supremacist nature of the discussion, so the poster later edited the title to specifically reference European people, which may have been well intentioned but only served to gaslight us by making it look like we were over-reacting and looking to be offended.
I came here for the leftism, and stayed for the Trans Rights. I'm a 2-spirit, native leftist. I have myriad reasons why I may or may not choose or even have the choice of veganism and any moralizing or condescension that comes from white vegans is an extension of over 500 years of an imposition of an alien value system which is profoundly disconnected from this land and the plants and animals which are our blood relations.
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Notoriously privileged and counter-revolutionary preacher of Veganism; Angela Davis.
How it went:
How it's going:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/13/angela-davis-vote-joe-biden-candidate-who-can-be-m/
Every day we stray further from God's light
i don't understand why class reductionism gets upvoted when it's used to attack vegans.
Because veganism is "white and western" and therefore bad according to site orthodoxy. Unless it's from an article that quotes a Chinese CEO who wants to turn vegan meat replacements into a luxury commodity, then it's "based".
Are animals going to be full.members of society after the revolution? I mean, I think there are pretty good reasons that the answer to this should be yes, but this is solely because we should be respectful to animals.
Calling it class reductionism to not prioritize the choice of veganism, however good it may be, is not exactly respectful of the other intersections that people are born with, like gender identity, race, etc etc.
i don't know how else to take this besides a class reduction. they're even ignoring the fact that humanitarians is listed there right next to animal advocates, and then uses the quote to say we should just ignore their concerns.
basically just a total garbage take that is only upvoted because everyone is having a circle jerk hating on vegans right now.
No, it's because these movements, as they are often implemented to deflate the revolutionary potential by being about a lot of talk and not actually providing the ability to change the conditions that caused the issues in the first place. Of course addressing these issues is good, of course veganism is good, of course helping those in need is good - but when it's done with the intent of derailing the ability to effect real change, that is, when it is used instead of further work, or to put blame on the working class, or when it's not utilized to organize and criticize the bourgeoisie, then it is counter-revolutionary.
Example :Charity is counter revolutionary because when it is used by the bourgeoisie to direct a pittance to the poorest in need, it mollifies many otherwise who would take to the streets to demand change. Charity is used as propaganda to mask class antagonism, while simultaneously supporting the status quo.
This is a fundamental part of liberalism, is lip service to important causes, without providing a pathway to real change.
I don't see this as class reductionism.
Similarly, attacking your comrades for their personal choices does not provide a pathway to greater change. Yes, veganism is cause worth fighting for, yes animal rights are important. This is something that should be used to motivate the left, not attack and create schisms.
the top of the thread just says "fuck changing anything in favor of being less cruel to animals, we have more important shit to take care of." while trying to use the fucking communist manifesto to justify it. if that's not creating a fucking schism and demotivating leftist vegans i don't know what is. if he'd said about humanitarian efforts his comment would be removed for being 'stupidpol garbage' as well it should.
I don't think this is the right approach to take towards past communists. Their words are not gospel fron which we must derive our morals. On the contrary, we should look for areas to improve. We should make Marx look like a fascist.
However, some vegans are going out of their way to degrade comrades and label them as non-leftists. This is a form of sectarianism and needs to be combatted.
This seems like a poor argument to me along the same lines of the "how can we deal with social issues when there are starving people!!'. Attention and focus can be brought on different subjects at once.
Like is veganism as important as climate change? No of course not, climate change is already/is going to kill off most animals just like it's gonna kill humans. But that doesn't mean that people aren't allowed to focus on some of the smaller issues while we address the big ones too
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You have to also be bourgeoise for any of these things to apply. It's describing the owner of a vegan restaurant not a vegan proletariat. Nice try.
No, it's describing the focus on capitalists focusing on moralistic arguments and introducing solutions to derail and take the wind out of revolutionary solutions. It's about talk and not real action.
Chiding people for being vegan is not making progress towards a society wide solution. If it did, all of the protestors outside of the meat packing plants in my town would have had them shut down decades ago.
It's the same with XR, with PETA, with Occupy wallstreet. These are movements that shame the user, the consumer, and the worker, without possessing any plan for follow through for making real solutions or effecting change, it's just blame and spectacle.
Veganism has a very true moral argument, but this shouldn't be blaming people for eating meat or calling them non -leftists, it should be working together to effect this change from a position of power.
"It's privileged to care about subhuman lives" this website is dumb af lmao
Dengists: "actually no workers ever skin racoon dogs alive because that's not efficient profitable enterprise praxis"
Being vegan is fine; morally correct, even. Spending your time advocating for animals when that time could be devoted to better things is bad. Yes, humans are more important than any other animal. That should not be a hot take.
You can care about more than one thing. I think killing animals is bad, so I stopped eating them. I think that poverty is immoral so I spend my time working at a food bank and organizing to end capitalism.
You say these problems shouldn't be fought under capitalism until it's overthrown, but do you think communism or socialism should be vegan?
Yes, being vegan is the morally correct and more sustainable option. I don't think anyone could argue otherwise in good faith. I just don't think putting a ton of time into it is good when there are numerous ways to help your fellow humans with your time.
All charity is bad and people who do it are evil. You heard it here first folks.
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