We have to do it. Some of us have to do it in different ways. Doing small things where you can is all well and good but literally none of us are making a single impact in capitalism by making different choices about how we're forced to participate in it. Focus on tearing it down together rather than picking apart individual choices because those individual choices still result in participating in capitalism.
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Meanwhile you're over here actively trying to exclude me and others from action that actually matters because I'm not doing action that doesn't matter. Leftists need to stick together and organize together because "just don't buy it then" does not and will not even remotely harm the interests of capital.
The problem is capitalism. It's not meat eaters or plastic users or tax payers. The sooner folks of ALL walks stop trying to exclude people from the movement the sooner we can actually have a movement. Meanwhile you're doing a tiny thing that makes 0 actual difference and claiming that we are horrible horrible people doing something else. It's counter productive. It does nothing. Why do it except because you don't actually care about tearing down capitalism?
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I won't say that I don't give a shit about animals. I was vegetarian for like a year but guess what? Fucking capitalism happened and now I'm not anymore. This is what I'm talking about. You are just flying in here and everywhere passing judgement on people you don't know for something that literally does not further the goal of "remove capitalism". It's frankly disgusting. You don't know me. You don't know anyone or any of the circumstances around the people you're shouting at. You have no idea what my circumstances are. You have no idea what you're saying other than "I'm better than you because I don't participate in one tiny piece of capitalism and I don't care about the rest." It's ridiculous. It's the same shit libs do when they say things like 'Voting for Biden is the lesser evil!' and then they do literally nothing else for 4 years. That's you. Right now.
Go organize instead of trying to tear a community apart
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I didn't make a big show of it. I didn't even reference animal products at all; you brought this up, presumably as an example of how I'm wrong, and then flew off the handle immediately when I went to defend my initial statement of "this kind of bullshit is counter productive".
And that's why it's counter productive. So I guess thank you for popping in and immediately proving my point?
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It's the circle of lib honestly. There's nothing more lib than saying "I'm doing one thing, therefore I'm better than you and don't have to do anything else". And as is customary of libs, when someone calls them out on "hey, that's just being a lib and isn't useful, let's try doing something useful instead", they get mad and say "no actually YOU'RE the lib!"
Seriously, go do something that matters. Annoying people online because they can't or won't or don't fall into your perfect ideal vision of what leftism is doesn't do anything.
you: a sectarian
"i am correct and cannot empathize with your position and refuse to try"
Slaughterhouses, factory farms and whatnot are still going to run even if you turn Vegan. You're not freeing animals from cruelty by not eating meat, just like how you're not freeing kids from sweatshops by not wearing sneakers. Unless you're that confidence in your buying power as a consoomer like a :LIB:
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With this in mind I will stop ordering packages from amazon to exercise my power as a consoomer.
Have you just learnt the definition of a boycott lol?
I'm making fun of you people who thinks that boycotts works.
There's no one organising technique that "works" what does this even mean? Boycotts are absolutely effective at raising consciousness as part of a wider movement
Actually, it doesn't change anything because the markets aren't responsive enough to adjust how many animals are slaughtered based on a single person's day-to-day consumption habits.
The comparison to child labor is apt.
Sorry if that makes you feel less morally superior.
"You see, it's bad, actually to give money to homeless people because it's a temporary fix and won't long term solve homelessness"
That immediately alleviates the suffering of another
humanbeing, however insignificantly, making it categorically different than simply being vegan:thinkin-lenin:
Didnt realize the immigrant slaughterhouse workers who get PTSD from their jobs weren't humans who were suffering.
Please tell me more about your empathy for fellow humans tho :)
https://www.texasobserver.org/ptsd-in-the-slaughterhouse/
Your not eating animal products does jack shit for those people, sorry
A comparable action to giving a homeless person money would be fostering animals or donating to orgs that help animals
But you definitely can just stop eating meat and live more or less the same life. Buy some beans, it turns out they're cheaper too.
Vegans say this sort of thing a lot. But they also say that going vegan causes you to lose weight. I would be dangerously underweight if I lost even 15 pounds. So maybe don't assume it's genuinely viable for everyone?
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Must be nice to know everything about everyone else's life circumstances.
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If you must know, I haven't been to a grocery store in over a year, and I don't prepare food for myself, which is, you know, kind of a key activity vegans need to perform for themselves.
Anyway, I don't really want to continue this argument. I just wanted to point out that going vegan is not simply something everyone can do (despite being in full agreement on the morality of veganism), and I got a ton of shit from multiple people for it. As many others have said during this ongoing struggle session (which I have been studiously avoiding up until now), condescension is not a winning conversion strategy.
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I have asked to disengage, and you have not done so. Further comments will be reported.
That literally happened to me(vegetarian) and my nutritional levels dropped too. My doctor forced me back into eating at least some kind of red meat and fish, at least one of them each week. I tried my best to have a balanced diet while vegetarian, but it didn't help apparently.
Edit: By the way i'm perfectly aware that mine is a rare situation and don't apply to everyone. Try going vegan/vegetarian if you can. I'm eating the minimum amount of meat just to keep myself healthy. If you don't feel like it, try reducing the amount of meat consumption. Every little bit helps. If you don't want to go vegan, don't go vegan, you're not forced to, and people who are trying to guilt-trip you have online poisoning.
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I have never heard a vegan say this. If you want to lose weight on a vegan diet, you can. If you don't want to lose weight, you don't have to. If you're eating a metric fuckton of cheese and fatty meats I mean yeah, maybe.
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You're presupposing that I can "bulk up" without being vegan, but I have never found this to be true. So I don't think imposing additional dietary challenges is going to help.
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Switching to not eating meat will not cause you to drop a lot of weight.
Meat isn't what causes people to gain weight, carbs do. And carbs are vegan.
I have absolutely zero desire to talk to you, as you clearly already know. Go away.
Going vegan can help you lose weight if you want to because you have to reevaluate all the food you eat so you can make healthier choices. But if you don't wanna lose weight, you're not going to.
I've lost plenty of weight without wanting to in the past.
Then how is this complaint about veganism? You've manufactured an unrelated excuse to continue doing animal cruelty.
i'm the direct opposite lol - going vegan hasn't made me lose weight at all.
I've never seen studies or anything about it, but I'm fairly sure that people who lose weight going vegan were overweight to begin with. Rice and beans don't have less calories than a steak.
There’s also A lot of people who lose weight when going vegan because they were going vegan for such a purpose or subconsciously have orthorexia. So it is an issue but their circumstances aren’t applicable to everyone if you pay attention to eating enough calories.
You're right - we cannot escape capitalism. The various electronic devices we use, the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the power we use in our homes etc. At the same time, as leftists, we must try to reduce the harm we cause at a personal level, while recognizing that this wouldn't end capitalism. Use your phone/laptop etc for longer rather than getting a new one every couple of years. Wear clothes for longer, or get them from non-exploitative labor. For food, don't eat meat. These are all steps you can take that won't end capitalism - but they're all steps that you take if you have a compassionate view of the world.
These are all things we should be doing, that in fact, we can do if we act collectively, but right now we don't have that level of solidarity. So we do what we can as individuals while building towards that solidarity.