These narratives have real world consequences. Anytime you mention Xinjiang or that China is committing a "genocide" to liberals and conservatives it helps spread this shit. It helps reinforce Sinophobic narratives and will result in more deaths. Combat these lies and this propaganda where you see It. It is our moral duty to do so.

  • fawx [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I honestly just need someone to explain this to me. As far as I'm aware it seems like China is committing a genocide, and I get there's possibly an argument to be made that mentioning this stokes sinophobic sentiment and that sucks but also I don't feel like that weight is on me when there's an actual genocide going on. I don't hate anti nazi propaganda for stoking German hate or whatever. It's the lesser evil basically. But anywho, is there not a genocide than and if so, reputable sources.

      • cresspacito [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        To add to this:

        Top US Army Chief Admits Xinjiang Uyghur Unrest is a CIA Narrative

        NED (basically a CIA offshoot) admits to funding Uyghur separatist groups in a still undeleted tweet

        Furthermore, some discussions accept that there's no actual genocide but claim that there is "cultural genocide". These range from:

        • citing demolition of mosques, which doesn't seem to be happening + IIRC China has the 2nd most mosques per capita in the world (behind only Saudi Arabia)

        • Claiming that Uyghur language is banned and they aren't allowed to use it in the 'camps' (yet even in propagandistic BBC documentaries you can see Uyghur script everywhere)

        • Claiming that they aren't allowed to wear "traditional dress" and "long beards are banned" - the beards part is actually true, but it isn't Uyghur custom to wear the "dress" they speak of or long beards - those are associated with the Uyghur separatists that were radicalised by ISIS.

        Anyway, Uyghur population is growing, Xinjiang is thriving, Uyghur public figures seem to be doing pretty well for themselves. All very not-genocidey things. Are re-education camps the ideal solution? Probably not, but here we are living in the real world and not a utopia.

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Ok, so I read the whole thing and apologize for my response being much shorter, but I appreciate the thoroughness. With that said, it seems like it'd be fair to say the treatment of Uyghurs is somewhere between US/black relations with a bit of Native American education/ cultural influence, right? Because if that's so, I still feel like they're well within being criticized.

        I don't talk about the China situation with anyone outside of leftist spaces (mostly here and friends) and I've just never liked this idea of "we shouldn't criticize other countries for doing bad because it's not as bad as we're being told and America only spreads that narrative for empire reasons. Like America can be doing bad things, but so can the other side, and I feel like people would be more willing to listen to our side if we were more willing to admit that America isn't always "the only" bad guy in a situation. I mean maybe that's not the best strategy, but it seems it to me

          • fawx [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            If you'll humor me another question, if you were a Uyghur, do you think you'd support the Chinese efforts. I guess ultimately, that's always my hardline for things like this. And I'll even admit, I do believe it's possible (though strikingly unlikely when done by a government, but maybe that's my US/ Capitalist conception of government (under which I would still largely place China)) that there could be efforts that would be opposed by a populace, but ultimately beneficial for them, which I would support. Say for example implementing Socialism. But I guess all that said would you label it as just "not that bad" to which I would counter "bad is bad and I can't support it" or a "necessary evil".

    • The_Jewish_Cuban [he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      4 years ago

      What is a credible source to you? I don't know what to say it's not going to be hanging out in mainstream news channels. (Not that I'm necessarily accusing you of asking for this) I mean it has kinda lost all its meaning at this point because it has been said to death but nearly all news you see from the region is from Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist, who is on an ordained mission from God to destroy the CPC. Generally, speaking I would put the onus on the accuser of genocide to you know prove it. All I have time to do right now is share this video on it. https://youtu.be/8yURIS7S9zg

      I'm sure other people here will probably be able to provide a more in-depth breakdown

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I'm sorry but you ask "what is credible" and then post a video of a guy using the worst vocoder and wearing a ski mask and glasses like he's in a ransom video, and it's over an hour long with less than 25k views? That would honestly make a good comedy bit, worked right. I'm not saying it's maybe not a good source, but honestly I'm not watching that.

        • RedDawn [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          “Somebody explain Xinjiang to me”

          “I’m not watching that” ok. There’s no genocide happening, how about you provide the evidence that has you convinced there is a genocide, so people know why you think that in the first place so they know what it is that needs to be explained.

          • fawx [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            I mean to be fully honest, I actually am watching it now, it's just funny posting this as a credible bit (again not saying it's not, just surface level). I'll get back to you when it's done or I'm done watching it at least.

            • RedDawn [he/him]
              ·
              4 years ago

              I’m not the one that linked it to you. I haven’t watched that video yet myself but I’ve seen others by that guy, he tends to cite all his sources.

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        As for what I'd count as credible, Idk, maybe a good on the ground reporter?

        • The_Jewish_Cuban [he/him]
          hexagon
          ·
          4 years ago

          Have you seen a credible good on the ground reporter that says there is a genocide?

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I mean i've been here since the beginning, I just made this account 4 months ago. My reddit account is like 10 years old and I've been on chapo for a long time there

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        I mean I've actually been here since the beginning, I just finally made an account 4 months ago. You can check my reddit too, it's like 10 years old u/fawxhox.

    • glimmer_twin [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1287411708374454273.html

      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/mobilebasic

    • RedDawn [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      What exactly do you think a genocide is? Even if all the most outrageous, hyperbolic accusations against China in mainstream press were true, it wouldn’t rise to the level of genocide.

      • fawx [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Check the imgur user fawxhox if you want to see it. It's 6.25", pretty unremarkable

        • wtypstanaccount04 [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          damn what's it like to be hung

          edit: I've been had! Where is this hog you speak of?

          • fawx [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Is it not on there? It was at one point, I may have deleted it at one point because a lot of real life people know my username. If you want to see it I'd be happy to send it to you, nevertheless

                  • fawx [he/him]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    I've gotten 1 compliment and 5 'did not comments', so I'm labeling that good enough. In the interest of honesty I've had one person say I was quick in bed, but that was a bad breakup, and for further unnecessary honesty to a random stranger online, I jack off like 5-7 times so it takes me like 15-20 minutes to cum so I am almost positive that is not true.