Whenever I hear about the Iraq war on the "leftist" podcasts I listen to (other than Media Roots Radio) I always get hit with the usual suspects to blame - freakin' Hillary, the 'Democrat' party leadership (most rank-and-file congressional Ds voted against Iraq), or the uniquely evil super-genius Bush.
Why does no one ever dive into opinion polls at the time showing something like 70-80% of wypipo supported the invasion? It isn't even uniquely interesting to point out 'hypocrites' like Tucker Carlson, Donald Trump or Glenn Greenwald supported invading Iraq - because it would be really strange if they didn't. I do remember Bill Maher saying US troops would get their asses kicked in March 2003 but that was probably just part of his bit of being the ugly guy who gets booed
When people talk about “manufacturing consent,” this is what they’re referring to: the process of taking elite goals (like the looting of Iraq) and instilling them into the larger population.
The usual suspects are the usual suspects because they whipped the mob into its blood frenzy.
Americans were whipped into a frenzy in an incredibly scary and effective way. It was in all media you could find at the time.
I was on a discord call yesterday with other users and we brought up a Disney Channel movie made in that short window between 02-03 that was ONE OF MANY that was pushing pro-war propaganda.
Americans were made to want the war, our culture bent to the will of those who wanted blood.
If you werent there, it’s because you couldnt have been old enough to be there, but i cant possibly describe the character of that time without either of us thinking I’m making it up
They connected Saddam with Al-Qaeda and said he would give them WMD to use on us.
Iraq giving WMDs to Al Qaeda would be as absurd as the Jews giving Zyklon-B to Hitler.
And the absurdity wouldnt scan because americans could barely differentiate iran from iraq anyway
Iraq we supported against Iran. They were the "good guys" up until the war ended. Then just a few years later, the US State Department greenlighted the invasion of Kuwait and Gulf War I was on.
Even after the invasion. I remember watching a wonk say something about the flag that survived at the WTC was the same one flying in Baghdad when Sadam's statue was pulled down.
Also important is to remember things like the Seattle WTO protests of ‘99
We didn't have the internet to talk back and talk amongst ourselves back then. Well, we did, but it was the blogging era and wasn't as influential as today's social media. There was that blogger that took Dan Rather's scalp but that was after the invasion.
Many people, myself included, simply did not believe the government could coordinate with the media to tell such gigantic lies. In my defense, I simply had no idea that they were that evil. I had no concept of it. I knew the US government could do bad things, or screw up, or be incompetent, but to launch a war on pretenses they knew to be false? And then the media, supposed to be government watchdogs, go along with it? It was just outside anything I had ever experienced.
And they knew this, and counted on it. And after they fooled us, they felt nothing but contempt for us not having stopped them. They got away with it, and this emboldened them to even greater adventures. Say, can anyone tell me why we're at war in Syria? I don't know and neither do you.
Those were false flags. Happened right after Trump announced troop withdrawal.
Independent analysts raised pertinent questions about several conclusions that the OPCW reached regarding the earlier incidents, and it was bad enough that mainstream journalists ignored or peremptorily dismissed those objections and critiques. But mounting evidence of outright OPCW misconduct during its investigation of the latest episode, the alleged use of chemical weapons in Douma (a rebel-held Damascus suburb) in April 2018, should have triggered a massive inquiry by journalists. Instead, there is the sound of crickets.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/medias-coverage-syria-april-2018-chemical-weapons-attack-disgrace-120806
https://www.globalresearch.ca/new-wikileaks-bombshell-inspectors-dissent-syria-chemical-attack-narrative/5697871
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/working-papers/assessment-by-the-engineering-sub-team-of-the-opcw-fact-finding-mission-investigating-the-alleged-chemical-attack-in-douma-in-april-2018
Even today in organizing groups of people slightly left of center anti-war stuff just isn't on the radar at all. I remember way back during the first "Indivisible" organizing in my town (which was Trump Country PA) and searching for points of unity I basically stood alone under the "anti-war" paper "issues" sign that I made. Most Americans just don't give a fuck about foreign policy. Its for nerds, and those nerds 9/10 want to bomb more_ people. I hate it. As an aside there was one wobbly-guy there at that first meeting, and in the first 5 minutes he just left. Should've taken that as a sign early on.
Honestly, the only consistently anti war folks I work with are a few "proper" libertarians. They might have a meme ideology, but damnit they are consistent on foreign policy & incarceration.
Yes, they're also consistent on a lot of the more annoying libertarian stuff involving regulations, but I live in BFE, so I organize with who I can on what I can.
That's a good point, I think I can relate to that experience too.
Oh, the (many, many) people who were saying this were completely unconcerned with the political alignment of members of the US military. The nation was obsessed with revenge and dead set on MAKING THEM PAY. Who was "them"? It could be anyone convenient. Iraq had fuck all to do with 9/11, but hurting them satisfied the bloodlust and made people feel powerful again.
I'm literally just a shitposting zoomer so I have no memory of the time. Did people actually have that in their heads? "If you're angry about imperialism, enlist"? Or was the saying "If you're angry about anti-US warriors, enlist"?
EDIT: Nvm I think I misunderstood you, I doubt there would be any need for the military to appeal to anti-imperialists when the whole nation was out for blood already.
Right, people were completely enraged (and terrified on a level that's hard to explain--there are lots of scary things now of course, but the "ambient level of fear," if that makes sense, is a lot higher now so the fear was really shocking in a way that few things feel these days) and were out for blood. "If you're pissed, enlist" meant "If you're pissed at [anti-Muslim slur], enlist so you can get revenge." Were you taking revenge on the same people who perpetrated the attacks? Who cares! What reasons might people have to attack the US? Who cares! Will this just feed into an endless cycle of violence that just begets more violence? Who cares!
That's super interesting. One thing I remember my history teacher telling me in high school was "you have no idea what it was like pre-9/11 because you were too young," i.e "ambient level of fear" was lower. Since then I've thought it was a very west-centric way of viewing things, like it was just one building getting attacked, considering all the other horrible shit in the world I doubt it's THAT big of a deal globally. Like how Afghani farmers have no idea wtf 9/11 is, but they sure do know about American troops.
But yeah, from the perspective of a westerner, that shift seems to have been crazy dramatic.
It really was different. The "end of history" bullshit really was widely believed. Even things like school shootings--Paducah was in 97, Columbine was in 99, and there were others, but at that point it still seemed like something that would be fixed, not the new normal that it is today. So each shooting was a shock in a way that they just aren't any more. If you joined the military, you were going to get free college but you weren't going to really do anything as a soldier. People really got swept up in the shocked fear and rage after 9/11. I'm old enough to remember the Berlin wall coming down--I was a kid, so I didn't really get the significance but I remember people dancing on the wall and my parents were VERY EXCITED. The wall came down, the USSR fell, and it seemed like there were no real serious enemies any more. Sure, things weren't perfect and there were small conflicts around the world, but the US was safe. Nobody was launching nukes at us, and nobody was invading us. With 9/11 we had a Serious Enemy again, and everything changed. One way to illustrate how absurd things got is by telling you a story I heard from relatives in Indiana. They told me that at one point that there was a list made of possible terrorist targets so people could prepare security and make sure another tragedy didn't happen. Well, the list included the things you would expect--government buildings, stadiums, etc . . . and also an Amish popcorn company in a small town. Who the fuck is bombing a small town Amish popcorn factory? (Twirls mustache--"They'll never see it coming!")But they were on the list, just in case. People were scared. And like a dog at bay, ready to bite anyone within reach.
You know how often we've seen people, either with power or just average folks, who were foaming-at-the-mouth ready for war at the time, and retroactively act like they always thought it was? And it's not really unique to D or R? You think that's something that socialists avoided? Consent was manufactured incredibly well, the overwhelming majority, heck almost everyone you'd talk to, were on board with it! And then like 5 years later, everyone's mocking Bush like it was all him and it was just a bad financial decision. And that includes the people you're talking about, most of them would have to admit they too were braying for blood, and it's way more comfortable to not self reflect
Fun story about this time: I was hanging out with a friend, and her friend who was visiting from out of town. Her friend's husband was deployed in Saudi Arabia and I very confidently explained my belief that it was all just sabre rattling and nothing would happen. This was my sincere belief at the time, because invading Iraq was so obviously dumb we wouldn't do it.
3 days later the bombing began.
Oops.
I was scared we were going to have another Vietnam--I had nightmares about my brothers and friends being drafted. (Little did I know that yes, we were going into a quagmire, but no, it would be fought by volunteers and mercenaries.) Then Shock and Awe happened, and everything went so fast, I thought well, maybe Saddam will be deposed with a minimum loss of life* and hopefully things in Iraq will be better? Yeah, not so much.
*extremely naïve, I know.
Yeah, Iraq basically became Galt's Gulch after 2006 and has been that way ever since. The small amount of socialized programs that existed are still being gutted to this day. Everything has been sold off to warlords and foreign interests. America got the oil, warlords got the infrastructure, housing is still free in a lot of places, but it's small and sucks. Power is still intermittent in a lot of places and all the more sustainable energy generation was scrapped for a return to burning oil and gas in generators.
The people are getting fed up though, and if the US finally steps out, we'll see a massive surge in revolutionary organizing. Most people hate ISIS and the US and the warlords. Without imperial backing, they won't be able to keep everyone down forever.
The people are getting fed up though, and if the US finally steps out, we’ll see a massive surge in revolutionary organizing. Most people hate ISIS and the US and the warlords. Without imperial backing, they won’t be able to keep everyone down forever.
I really hope so. The people of Iraq have suffered so much, it would be amazing to see them thriving.
I think the two kinda mesh into each other? Even politicians who weren't as bloodthirsty get pressured into supporting the shit, and also the citizens who are maybe more opening to questioning things are pressured because they see all the politicians talking about how evil Iraq is and all the media telling them the same.
I knew the jingoism was very blatant to the point of being silly but since I'm Canadian I didn't really have a grasp on how popular the attitude was there. I figured the supporters were just loud racist rednecks because that was the style at the time.
Where I lived it was quite safe to assume that you were against the war and shitting on Bush was the most normie humor. As Canadians we need to really hang on to the few miniscule things that make us slightly better than America so our country doing the bare minimum to assist the US without getting them upset at us like France and not formally declaring war really brought everyone together in smugness for a bit
Shit, I remember going to a beach in Toronto not long after the invasion of Iraq and there were some dudes burning an effigy of Bush 2 and no one cared
it's pretty great in retrospect tbh
americans dont like self inspection so if the podcast they want to stay affload in this media landscape need to appease their audience ... thats why maybe ?
