i swear to god, if i hear one more dumbass say a variant of "stupid-asses not reading theory" im gonna cum down their fucking throat.

like holy shit, slow the hell down queen. sorry that some of us don't feel like trying to decipher formal register bullshit, and would rather get their theory from people who don't sound like plantation owners.

"The surplus-value produced by prolongation of the working day, I call absolute surplus-value."

What the fuck is this supposed to mean? Is he talking about making long-ass workdays? Is he talking about creating extra value by overworking? What the fuck is it? Holy shit, the classism is rampant here and it's super fuckin' annoying to see.

If you tell somebody to read theory then you better be ready to help them fucking read it. Either that or don't tell them to at all, I could really give a shit what old generally-white guys said about a subject that I can understand by taking off fifteen minutes of my time to ask someone in a leftist discord. Ancient theory is useless in a modern domesticated setting, no-one talks like Marx nowadays.

/vent

        • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
          7·
          4 years ago

          Yeah I'm mad at dipshits writing post #5320492 about how old books are bad, I've seen them hundreds of times, they add nothing and every time it's the same shit. If you want to know what something means, just fucking ask like a normal person.

          • yeehawman1312 [he/him,any]
            5·
            4 years ago

            If people have to keep making the same fucking post, then maybe theres a problem?

            HMMMMMMM

            How the fuck did i get 19 upvotes this fast, I know for a fact it wasn't possible to get 19 in 30 seconds lmao.

            • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
              4·
              4 years ago

              I don't walk into a philosophy class bitching about "old white men" because I encountered "Kantian ethics" and didn't understand what it meant. I don't attribute that as an innate problem that the phrase exists, and that it supposedly needs solving, especially from a position of ignorance about why such a thing might exist.

              The "problem" is, surprise fucking surprise, various fields of study require learning shit. The "problem" is being able to engage with shit on its own terms. The "problem" is someone getting mad at a term they didn't know existed.

              • yeehawman1312 [he/him,any]
                5·
                4 years ago

                if you have to use big words to say that workers shouldnt be forced to overwork then you're a classist intellectual who wants to show off their degree

                🤷‍♀️

                • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
                  4·
                  4 years ago

                  Marx did not invent the term surplus-value for shits and giggles or to show off to Engels, for fucks sake. The term surplus-value describes the unpaid portion of labour, but is a term that specifically relates to the understanding of Value, distinct from prices, which for Marx is socially necessary labour time. Surplus-value forms the underlying basis of profit for Marx, and is important also when detailing the further consequences of Marxist economics .e.g. accumulation of capital, organic composition of capital (ratio of constant capital to variable capital i.e. human labour) and whatever else.

                  Thus, if you want to talk specifics of Marxist economics, terms like surplus-value have relevance and importance, and serves as a useful shorthand.

                  The "big words" are necessary in order to describe concepts particular to Marxist economics. This is also true of almost any field you could care to learn about. If you are starting from a place of not knowing that, then it is easy to be dismissive. It's the same sort of attitude that leads to chuds just insisting "But sex and gender are the same! There's only two sexes!!!" when you try to describe that's not the case and have to introduce new terminology they scoff at precisely because they're not familiar and don't care to understand.

                  • yeehawman1312 [he/him,any]
                    5·
                    4 years ago

                    Then use a fuckinng word that can easily be understood by anyone. Don't say surplus-value, say fucking "unpaid work".

                    I'm a leftist for a reason, because every other ideology doesn't give a fuck about the poor, if you aren't willing to translate the theory into something understandable then don't get pissy at me for thinking that the theory is dumbshit.

                    • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
                      3·
                      4 years ago

                      Then use a fuckinng word that can easily be understood by anyone. Don’t say surplus-value, say fucking “unpaid work”.

                      Because "extra cash" is not a sufficient term to describe or capture what is actually being discussed. It is not even merely the term in itself, it is a set of concepts that are interrelated in order to explain an important aspect of how Marx describes and explains the capitalist system. Surplus-value is not merely "extra-cash", nor is it even merely "unpaid work" in general laymans sense. These concepts require their own terminology to convey the specific meaning Marx is aiming to get across.

                      It is genuinely hard to get this across if you just refuse to simply accept that there are terms of art or jargon in every field, and that quite often these terms exist to describe concepts, behaviours, systems etc that cannot always be adequately described in pure laymans terms, or where terms have specific historical origins and therefore historical significance within that field.

                      This just highlights that you're speaking from a place of ignorance, which might have been fine if you just engaged productively, but instead you had a dumb knee-jerk reaction to some terms you didn't know.

                      I’m a leftist for a reason, because every other ideology doesn’t give a fuck about the poor, if you aren’t willing to translate the theory into something understandable then don’t get pissy at me for thinking that the theory is dumbshit.

                      Well I'm sorry, but sometimes learning requires coming to understand terms you aren't already familiar with. These terms are often useful once you actually learn what they are and why someone might have coined them.

            • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
              5·
              4 years ago

              Then maybe they could just ask without writing several paragraphs about a single term they saw and didn't know, and just ask like a normal person who was actually interested in understanding.

                • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
                  4·
                  4 years ago

                  So what? All fields have their own terminology. They have to in order to be able to develop their fields. They all describe their own concepts, shorthands etc. This is not unique to Marx.

                  • yeehawman1312 [he/him,any]
                    3·
                    4 years ago

                    Of course it isn't, anarchist theory is the exact same, I only took Marx because hes the most wordy piece of shit I could mention at the time.

                    • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
                      5·
                      4 years ago

                      Yes, jargon abounds, is specific to the subject, and is less accessible than lay terms. I’m not advocating to not use or reference jargon, but if you cannot also explain ideas in simpler terms, what is their worth to people that may have difficulties with that jargon?

                      Good thing no one is against explaining anything then.

                      “Fuck you, read theory” does nothing to help anyone. Help your comrades, dont admonish them.

                      "Fuck you, old books bad" doesn't help anyone either. It actively makes discussion worse and less likely. Why should someone have the patience to help if you just write paragraphs of nonsense complaining about a new term you don't know. As I've already said just ask like a normal person actually interested in the subject .

                        • GlacialTurtle [none/use name]
                          5·
                          4 years ago

                          Writing paragraphs out of frustration at how difficult diving into theory/ideas that run counter to everything we’ve been told and sold til now, seems pretty reasonable tbh. “How do I make sense of this” shouldn’t be cause to shun the person. Please come down from that high horse, o’ learned one.

                          "Fuck books, fuck old white men [Marx was Jewish]" because they encountered one fucking term. If you want help, learn to ask in good faith. It's not that hard.

                          • yeehawman1312 [he/him,any]
                            4·
                            4 years ago

                            Except I was never asking a question, I was voicing my annoyance with how people feel about theory. I literally never insulted Marx, and I used him as an example once.

                            I don't fucking care that he was Jewish, that doesn't matter to me. I said 'generally-white' because, AND SHOCKER, white men were generally very educated back when theory was being produced.