No, but it's probably because I'm intersex so all the things people say make them euphoric and such I've had since normal puberty.. so it's like not special if that makes sense. I had boobs at 12.. I had hips too, low T kept my skin soft and clear, I don't show any signs of Testosterone that many would..
spoiler
But even at that I don't feel aligned at all and I don't feel any binary within me nor do I want to be restrained within a label now, I dunno it's hard but very alienating. I also haven't had an easy life growing up and such it's definitely left it's mark on me, hard feeling just basic stuff I've never had or experienced because of how messed up my upbringing was, it's hard feeling different to everyone.
Once you know how much of it is just labels and putting into little boxes it doesn't make sense. Problem being society is built around binaries and two choices, I want to see it all pulled down. Euphoria would be nice but I'm glad others get theirs
maybe invasive question about you/intersex people that I should have learned in sex ed
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but you were born with a micropenis, right? So why did you develop that way... if you didn't have estrogen/ovaries (or were you born with ovaries and a micropenis?). Or did you have E as a child? Or if you don't get T, do you just develop fem "by default"? I really don't understand intersex (or I guess how bodies work) that well I guess.
I am genuinely sorry if this is invasive I know some people would think it was I'm just trying to understand you can tell me to piss off or just ignore this part and I'll completely understand, I really hope you aren't mad.
spoiler
It sounds very hard and alienating, I'm sorry. I don't understand the intersex stuff but it really is hard feeling different, and a rough childhood does not help.
One of my earliest memories was being on a surgery table, I also have phantom vagina since a kid. A micropenis is one sign of being intersex but the definition is very broad. It's probable I had an ovary at some point and/or atypical chromosome layout. A lack of T will result in less masculinisation generally. When I hit puberty I had breasts and I had hips develop alongside.
The human body looks androgynous with a lack of either chemical.
I would recommend reading up on intersex, a lot of intersex people don't actually know they're intersex nor show signs, others get surgeries done on them to alter them by doctors without the parents consent or without their own consent.. I could have had that done to me but I'm unsure.
It feels like I dissociated a lot until my late 20s with a lot of things, like almost waking up then or starting to parse things.. I have massive holes in my memory and a lot of bad memories that I remember to fill the gaps too. Expressing my transness trying to wear makeup and then being punished for it when I was a kid is one example, it's hard for sure and I feel stunted in many ways just for existing not even trans related
Okay good, I just came back to delete/apologize because I feared the worst.
spoiler
Oh okay, wow. So you were... treated(?) really young. (side note, but it is interesting/frustrating how early society will do this to an intersex kid, but any other queer person has to wait/fight tooth and nail. Not that intersex has it easier in this way, [and from what I've heard they/you all have it worse in a lot of ways] just an aside/random thought.) I'm still a little confused, it sounds like you didn't have hrt, "just" the bottom surgery? How does that... work? Did you parents drop the ball with hrt, or am I misunderstanding something? Did you go through a "natural" puberty without ovaries or testicles? I thought you like... just wouldn't?
That is a very good idea, do you have any recommendations? And that's what I was thinking of earlier. What do you mean you are unsure, what are you unsure about? (unsure if you wanted bottom surgery then, or unsure if they had other surgeries done? Or something else?)
That does sound so hard I really can't imagine.
Expressing my transness trying to wear makeup and then being punished for it when I was a kid is one example
wait, so your parents knew you had a surgery to make a vagina though, right? I literally can't understand. So you had/they gave you that surgery but wouldn't let you wear makeup? And you said you grew breasts/hips... this is breaking both my brain and my heart.
(side note, but it is interesting/frustrating how early society will do this to an intersex kid, but any other queer person has to wait/fight tooth and nail. Not that intersex has it easier in this way, [and from what I've heard they/you all have it worse in a lot of ways] just an aside/random thought.)
Gender abolitionist fury
It's actually very simple. A person that cisnormative society has assigned Male wanting to be anything else does not fit their cisnormative society, and so must be stamped out.
A person that cisnormative society has assigned Male having an ovary in addition to "typical male" sexual anatomy is equally a blight to their cisnormative society, and so must be stamped out. This can be done most easily with invasive, non-consensual surgery to "correct" the child to fit the gender binary. What they do to intersex children is traumatic, disfiguring and they do it with glee and self-satisfaction. Having the truth of your body hidden from you for life, often without record, because some cisgender doctor decided they didn't like how you look is an actual crime of a thing to inflict upon anybody. "Easier" my fucking asshair.
This subject makes me want to fedpost something fierce. It is illegal to say, even on the bear website, how I feel about this topic.
t. Gender Theory Broke My Brain And Now I Want To Kill Cis
It really is that simple. I hate society and what it does to marginalized groups so much.
traumatic, disfiguring and they do it with glee and self-satisfaction
It really, truly is.
I can't believe they would do it without a record or even informing the parents (not saying that informing Magi's parents would have been the right or wrong call). Doing unneeded surgery on a child is already so terrible, and then not doing anything so they can ever know how they were born? Its just a whole other level on top of it. I hate how society treats children as objects parents own.
Idk if it's better or worse when the parents know, some of them do and make the decision any-fucking-way. For their child. I sincerely despise the "your offspring are things you own" shit too, which is strong in the west but not exclusive to it.
I think I was treated when really young. I never had hormone treatment, as far as my parents go, I don't know if they were aware of any of that. It's often done without the parents knowledge. I was treated as a cis male growing up and still had enough testosterone to have some facial hair (but not much) and other things of that nature, but I also developed breasts and wider hips than a typical cis male.
Linky if you dig about you should be able to find some more information, including some on the planned parenthood site, I thought I had some more links but can't find them.
CW some abuse talk
spoiler
I suffered abuse for behaving different to my assigned gender.. they had no idea I was trans but because I wasn't acting like a boy I was smacked or beat or worse.. that's as plainly as I can put it.
I will continue to apologize until I stop doing things I need to apologize for one day
spoiler
It's often done without the parents knowledge.
That is... bizarre to me. Like... how. On every level that is just very odd to me. I don't understand how doctors would actually be able to do the surgery, how your parents would never have known. And that's common... poor intersex kids/people oh my god. I can't imagine trying to navigate that, especially as a child.
And then obviously how could parents be so cruel, and how could you have to be treated/suffer that way.
Thank you for answering my questions. I will try to learn more about intersex people. I am glad you are in a better situation now.
Because many don't know much about intersex people in general so don't worry I don't mind answering some questions
I edited my last post to provide a link to a basic rundown, I had found a good blog a few years ago but lost it in moving to a new laptop but if I do find it at some stage I'll send you the link
The human body in the embryonic stage iirc starts as "female" by default, and stays that way unless it gets hit with testosterone. I'm brutally oversimplifying and someone else might swing in to explain better, but the penis as we see it is basically an overgrown clitoris with a urethra in it, they are analagous structures. Hence the 'vulvas are just ballsacks that didn't finish forming' which is D tier knowledge but an S tier meme.
A person assigned male at birth who never gets any testosterone (via hormone blockers like antiandrogens) can do puberty via estrogen and get lots of cool "female" stuff like widening of the pelvis, shorter arms, whatever's "typically" associated with being a woman. It depends on when bones fuse and stuff but you can still get this later sometimes, and of course estrogen is pretty good at feminising even if you are "all done" skeletal development. I don't personally think there is as dramatic a skeletal difference as people seem to think. I also really dislike the subject matter as it always strikes me as Gender Phrenology and leads to brainworms very often.
I'm pretty sure breast growth, or "gynecomastia" lol can happen with relatively minor hormone imbalances. Some cis men have it, even. Hormones are cool and rad, you should look into them!!
I'm pretty sure breast growth, or "gynecomastia" lol can happen with relatively minor hormone imbalances.
Yea, apparently. I'm really surprised, I thought you would need E for that to happen.
They sound cool! I am! Actually just the other day I learned that it wasn't just T that influenced "male" features, but some other hormone too. (I think this was from ftw, I really need to figure out how to put all my thoughts together about it)
People assigned male still have a small amount of estrogen production naturally anyway, and various factors can increase estrogen levels slightly. Hormones are actual magic basically! And yeah both primary sex hormones have other associated lil guys, lol
You were almost certainly not taught this in school. Westoid education systems are cowardly places that would never bestow such magic.
Yeah, no way to stimulate magical estrogen production so far, or else HRT might not be necessary. Ovary transplants could be funny for this reason iirc.
Never?
that is so sad. But yea without that I see why maybe you wouldn't...
No, but it's probably because I'm intersex so all the things people say make them euphoric and such I've had since normal puberty.. so it's like not special if that makes sense. I had boobs at 12.. I had hips too, low T kept my skin soft and clear, I don't show any signs of Testosterone that many would..
spoiler
But even at that I don't feel aligned at all and I don't feel any binary within me nor do I want to be restrained within a label now, I dunno it's hard but very alienating. I also haven't had an easy life growing up and such it's definitely left it's mark on me, hard feeling just basic stuff I've never had or experienced because of how messed up my upbringing was, it's hard feeling different to everyone.
I don’t see why people want to be binary, but I guess it’s nice to have community related to it. Pity no euphoria tho.
Once you know how much of it is just labels and putting into little boxes it doesn't make sense. Problem being society is built around binaries and two choices, I want to see it all pulled down. Euphoria would be nice but I'm glad others get theirs
The gender binary is diseased. Rotten to the core. There's no saving it -- we need to pull it out by the roots. WIpe the slate clean. BURN IT DOWN!
thinking dialectically “maybe there should be blendings of poles or something, no, too many contradictions, it’s outlived its use, burn it down.”
Drawing a Unicursal Hexagram around the duo to go full 5D chess
ooh, I could see that.
maybe invasive question about you/intersex people that I should have learned in sex ed
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but you were born with a micropenis, right? So why did you develop that way... if you didn't have estrogen/ovaries (or were you born with ovaries and a micropenis?). Or did you have E as a child? Or if you don't get T, do you just develop fem "by default"? I really don't understand intersex (or I guess how bodies work) that well I guess.
I am genuinely sorry if this is invasive I know some people would think it was I'm just trying to understand
you can tell me to piss off or just ignore this part and I'll completely understand, I really hope you aren't mad.
spoiler
It sounds very hard and alienating, I'm sorry. I don't understand the intersex stuff but it really is hard feeling different, and a rough childhood does not help.
I'm a very placid person so don't worry c:
spoiler
One of my earliest memories was being on a surgery table, I also have phantom vagina since a kid. A micropenis is one sign of being intersex but the definition is very broad. It's probable I had an ovary at some point and/or atypical chromosome layout. A lack of T will result in less masculinisation generally. When I hit puberty I had breasts and I had hips develop alongside. The human body looks androgynous with a lack of either chemical.
I would recommend reading up on intersex, a lot of intersex people don't actually know they're intersex nor show signs, others get surgeries done on them to alter them by doctors without the parents consent or without their own consent.. I could have had that done to me but I'm unsure.
It feels like I dissociated a lot until my late 20s with a lot of things, like almost waking up then or starting to parse things.. I have massive holes in my memory and a lot of bad memories that I remember to fill the gaps too. Expressing my transness trying to wear makeup and then being punished for it when I was a kid is one example, it's hard for sure and I feel stunted in many ways just for existing not even trans related
Okay good, I just came back to delete/apologize because I feared the worst.
spoiler
Oh okay, wow. So you were... treated(?) really young. (side note, but it is interesting/frustrating how early society will do this to an intersex kid, but any other queer person has to wait/fight tooth and nail. Not that intersex has it easier in this way, [and from what I've heard they/you all have it worse in a lot of ways] just an aside/random thought.) I'm still a little confused, it sounds like you didn't have hrt, "just" the bottom surgery? How does that... work? Did you parents drop the ball with hrt, or am I misunderstanding something? Did you go through a "natural" puberty without ovaries or testicles? I thought you like... just wouldn't?
That is a very good idea, do you have any recommendations? And
that's what I was thinking of earlier. What do you mean you are unsure, what are you unsure about? (unsure if you wanted bottom surgery then, or unsure if they had other surgeries done? Or something else?)
That does sound so hard
I really can't imagine.
Gender abolitionist fury
It's actually very simple. A person that cisnormative society has assigned Male wanting to be anything else does not fit their cisnormative society, and so must be stamped out.
A person that cisnormative society has assigned Male having an ovary in addition to "typical male" sexual anatomy is equally a blight to their cisnormative society, and so must be stamped out. This can be done most easily with invasive, non-consensual surgery to "correct" the child to fit the gender binary. What they do to intersex children is traumatic, disfiguring and they do it with glee and self-satisfaction. Having the truth of your body hidden from you for life, often without record, because some cisgender doctor decided they didn't like how you look is an actual crime of a thing to inflict upon anybody. "Easier" my fucking asshair.
This subject makes me want to fedpost something fierce. It is illegal to say, even on the bear website, how I feel about this topic.
t. Gender Theory Broke My Brain And Now I Want To Kill Cis
spoiler
It really is that simple. I hate society and what it does to marginalized groups so much.
It really, truly is.
I can't believe they would do it without a record or even informing the parents (not saying that informing Magi's parents would have been the right or wrong call). Doing unneeded surgery on a child is already so terrible, and then not doing anything so they can ever know how they were born? Its just a whole other level on top of it. I hate how society treats children as objects parents own.
spoiler
Idk if it's better or worse when the parents know, some of them do and make the decision any-fucking-way. For their child. I sincerely despise the "your offspring are things you own" shit too, which is strong in the west but not exclusive to it.
You don't have to apologise to me
spoiler
I think I was treated when really young. I never had hormone treatment, as far as my parents go, I don't know if they were aware of any of that. It's often done without the parents knowledge. I was treated as a cis male growing up and still had enough testosterone to have some facial hair (but not much) and other things of that nature, but I also developed breasts and wider hips than a typical cis male.
Linky if you dig about you should be able to find some more information, including some on the planned parenthood site, I thought I had some more links but can't find them.
CW some abuse talk
spoiler
I suffered abuse for behaving different to my assigned gender.. they had no idea I was trans but because I wasn't acting like a boy I was smacked or beat or worse.. that's as plainly as I can put it.
I will continue to apologize until I stop doing things I need to apologize for
one day
spoiler
That is... bizarre to me. Like... how. On every level that is just very odd to me. I don't understand how doctors would actually be able to do the surgery, how your parents would never have known. And that's common... poor intersex kids/people oh my god. I can't imagine trying to navigate that, especially as a child.
And then obviously how could parents be so cruel, and how could you have to be treated/suffer that way.
Thank you for answering my questions. I will try to learn more about intersex people. I am glad you are in a better situation now.
There's also https://4intersex.org & https://www.minus18.org.au/articles/i'm-intersex:-here's-what-that-means
Because many don't know much about intersex people in general so don't worry I don't mind answering some questions
I edited my last post to provide a link to a basic rundown, I had found a good blog a few years ago but lost it in moving to a new laptop but if I do find it at some stage I'll send you the link
I don't even know much about trans people
death to society for not educating me better. But I'm glad you understand.
Thank you! I will I have a look at that link, and yes if you ever remember I'd appreciate it.
We all have to start somewhere c:
Two more followed so hopefully from those you'll get a better understanding ^^
anatomy, human development stuff, scuffed
The human body in the embryonic stage iirc starts as "female" by default, and stays that way unless it gets hit with testosterone. I'm brutally oversimplifying and someone else might swing in to explain better, but the penis as we see it is basically an overgrown clitoris with a urethra in it, they are analagous structures. Hence the 'vulvas are just ballsacks that didn't finish forming' which is D tier knowledge but an S tier meme.
A person assigned male at birth who never gets any testosterone (via hormone blockers like antiandrogens) can do puberty via estrogen and get lots of cool "female" stuff like widening of the pelvis, shorter arms, whatever's "typically" associated with being a woman. It depends on when bones fuse and stuff but you can still get this later sometimes, and of course estrogen is pretty good at feminising even if you are "all done" skeletal development. I don't personally think there is as dramatic a skeletal difference as people seem to think. I also really dislike the subject matter as it always strikes me as Gender Phrenology and leads to brainworms very often.
I'm pretty sure breast growth, or "gynecomastia" lol can happen with relatively minor hormone imbalances. Some cis men have it, even. Hormones are cool and rad, you should look into them!!
spoiler
Yea, apparently. I'm really surprised, I thought you would need E for that to happen.
They sound cool! I am! Actually just the other day I learned that it wasn't just T that influenced "male" features, but some other hormone too. (I think this was from ftw, I really need to figure out how to put all my thoughts together about it)
spoiler
People assigned male still have a small amount of estrogen production naturally anyway, and various factors can increase estrogen levels slightly. Hormones are actual magic basically! And yeah both primary sex hormones have other associated lil guys, lol
The endless struggle between "was I ever taught this in school, or was I so apathetic at the time I wouldn't remember it."
Only slightly
You were almost certainly not taught this in school. Westoid education systems are cowardly places that would never bestow such magic.
Yeah, no way to stimulate magical estrogen production so far, or else HRT might not be necessary. Ovary transplants could be funny for this reason iirc.