Noname: "leftists should organize the majority of their colonialist nations and stop fixating on marginalized people"
British class traitor Breadtuber: "You're just trying to stop the revolution by pointing out I'm a LARPer who never talks to the working class and is just doing paternalist liberalism with woke socialist characteristics. Telling me to organize the vast majority of workers??? What a convenient narrative!"
she's one of the dumbest people on the left, props to Peter Coffin for leaving that podcast.
radlib "left" media attracts a lot of mediocre people because it is so easy to get clout and you don't have to be intelligent or talented to gain credibility. All you have to do is fervently sell party lines and have a histrionic/ infantile personality.
if I was a pretentious British opportunist, I would not make tweets like this because they would clearly apply to myself as an illiterate Breadtuber failure.
I don't think either of these are good takes. I generally agree with noname but the most successful leftist organizing historically (in the US) has always been across racial boundaries.
Not to mention that leftists can, and should, do both at the same time.
why are white leftists more eager to unify with racialized communities than organizing your own people first?
she means, why not advocate and educate Whites into radicalization instead of swooping into a racialized minority community, where someone else has done all the work.
This is the opposite problem most white leftists have. Go to a DSA meeting and everyone there is white, recruiting white people, focusing on white communities.
It's possible that black people don't feel comfortable in the DSA, as well.
Yes, because it's all white from the start. Because so much organizing is racially segregated. That's bad. And yet it's what noname is advocating for.
Give me an example of effective anti-capitalist organizing in the US that didn't involve a multi-racial coalition.
why are white leftists more eager to unify with racialized communities than organizing your own people first? unity with black people is meaningless as long as the masses of white people are indoctrinated into white supremacy and liberalism.
I don't know where you're getting "swooping into a racialized minority community, where someone else has done all the work" from.
Her comments has two parts:
- Organizing your race must come before any multiracial unity.
- Multiracial working class unity cannot exist so long as there are individuals with backwards politics.
This is a complete rejection of the notion that the most advanced segments of the working class must lead mass struggle. Instead, she is saying that the most advanced segments of the working class cannot lead mass struggle. Instead, they must correct individuals with backwards ideas. That is textbook petite bourgeois radicalism.
This is a complete rejection of the notion that the most advanced segments of the working class must lead mass struggle. Instead, she is saying that the most advanced segments of the working class cannot lead mass struggle
I'm sorry but White Leftists are not the most advanced segment of the working class, that's laughable if it wasn't reactionary. In fact, they are by most counts the most reactionary and backward elements. In their position of racialized privilege, they have blinders to a lot of the struggles the rest of the working class has to deal with. And without constant study and self-criticism, they will not truly move towards a successful revolutionary movement.
Her comments has two parts:
Organizing your race must come before any multiracial unity.
Multiracial working class unity cannot exist so long as there are individuals with backwards politics.
Her comments are White Leftists have a lot of work to do within their own communities, they are not in dire need within communities of color. You cannot have mass solidarity when an entire sub-section of people hold racist and reactionary views.
But on what planet is the goal to have solidarity with all White people? Obviously there is a ton of organizing and radicalizing to do within White communities, but that's not the same thing as saying these groups have to be totally separate. That's not even possible, because the most integrated parts of American society are working class jobs and neighborhoods.
The issue here is not saying White leftists have to do personal development or that they need to organize White people. The issue is the framing that Black and White workers can't come together until there are no more racists. That's completely idealistic and ignores how the most effective has always been done historically.
The point is to have an equilibrium or a tipping point in the ratio between White People and White Left Radicals. There are more Whites than there are Black and Hispanic people. And Whiteness is a concept that amalgamates downtrodden "White" looking people when convenient. So you have to make whiteness toxic in general for everyone.
In what way is that at all what noname is saying? She said unity is meaningless, which is absolute bullshit. You don't have to do this work making her bad tweets sound good. And how about the fact the most effective way to dismantle racism among individual White people is through a shared cause with Black people?
Here's a major issue I have with this personally: I'm White and live and work in mixed-race environments. If I want to engage with my community, then that means organizing with Black people. Those are my coworkers and neighbors. Noname, however, has declared that forbidden, because White people in distant suburbs are too racist. The on the ground reality is that, in many places where workers are, racial integration is the state of things.
In what way is that at all what noname is saying?
Unity with black people is meaningless as long as the masses of white people are indoctrinated into White Supremacy and liberalism.
But she's wrong, even with that generous interpretation. Unity with my Black neighbors is not meaningless. We have shared problems. If we want to improve the schools in our area, or transit, or environmental issues, should we not work together?
I think she is primarily speaking about white leftists trying to vie for positions of leadership or fear of cooptation of Black Movements. That's why I'm not hostile to her take, it is a legitimate take.
That's a totally legitimate take, she should say that instead.
Twitter sucks man. I read her shit all the time and she is an active organizer which is why I think I know where the fuck she is coming from; I could be wrong.
I think noname is mostly legit, I said so in another comment on here. This is just a bad tweet that feeds into a very liberal understanding of race relations (or a weird cross section between liberals and people who have only read Settlers).
I’m sorry but White Leftists are not the most advanced segment of the working class, that’s laughable if it wasn’t reactionary.
The most advanced segment of the working class are the workers in the labor movement committed to Marxism. That segment is multiracial. I'm not talking about "White Leftists."
In their position of racialized privilege, they have blinders to a lot of the struggles the rest of the working class has to deal with. And without constant study and self-criticism, they will not truly move towards a successful revolutionary movement.
You are just describing petite bourgeois radicals, but claiming that it is a product of "racial privilege" rather than their class consciousness. The "racial privilege" comes in when you consider the demographics of the petite bourgeoisie, which are disproportionally white.
The most advanced segment of the working class are the workers in the labor movement committed to Marxism. That segment is multiracial. I’m not talking about “White Leftists.”
Within that multi-racial segment you still have various degrees of commitment to the cause. Let's be realistic here.
You are just describing petite bourgeois radicals, but claiming that it is a product of “racial privilege” rather than their class consciousness.
/c/Literature is quite literally hosting a discussion on the book where White Working Class, would rather abandon the cause than be ostracized by their White Community/family for being members of the Communist Party and working in Black Cadres. Don't talk to me about it being merely "petit bourgeois" lmao.
Within that multi-racial segment you still have various degrees of commitment to the cause. Let’s be realistic here.
Absolutely, there is a long history of once-revolutionary Marxists abandoning the genuine working class struggle.
White Working Class, would rather abandon the cause than be ostracized by their White Community/family for being members of the Communist Party and working in Black Cadres
Yes, there are countless tools used to prevent workers from aligning with the multiracial working class movement. Black workers also had to fear being ostracized from their community for aligning with working class movement.
Aligning with Communists was often interpreted as provoking Klan violence. Also, it was interpreted as pushing "godless Communism" if their community was based around a reactionary church.
Don’t talk to me about it being merely “petit bourgeois” lmao
I am talking about people with radical politics, not the working class in general.
The mass of workers will always act in their perceived material interests. It is the duty of radicals to teach the masses the objective truth: their material interests are best served through a multiracial union against the ruling class.
"Don't stand in solidarity with Black people until you fix white supremacy."
"Clean your room, bucko."
Find the difference.
Black skepticism of White people, even self-proclaimed White leftists and activists, is more than justified by history and (generally) personal experience, and I wouldn't say that they have any obligation to allow White people into a given space. They can set whatever bar or qualifications they feel are appropriate (including just saying no White people allowed at all). And you're absolutely correct in your analysis of segregated areas and racist attitudes.
The problem with noname's statement is the blanket assertion that these groups must necessarily be separate, that there is no room for common ground. That there is nothing they could possibly stand to gain from cooperation right now, today. It shows how disconnected she is from the actual movement, how wrapped up in twitter intellectualism. The most radical work getting done now is POC lead but not POC exclusive.
I'm not dogpiling. I'm not ragging on her on twitter. I'm just having a conversation about the things she says. There's no dogpiling here because she's not here. And it isn't bad faith to look critically at an argument she is making that, in my view, actively works against progress.
As I've said elsewhere, I like noname (from what little I see of her), and I think her book club initiative could be really useful and informative. I have defended her on here before. None of that makes her immune from criticism for a take that is either extremely bad or, at best, so poorly communicated that it might as well be bad, especially is she wants to a public intellectual and educator.
A white woman tries to disrupt a multiracial solidarity event against police brutality by demanding white people go back to their own community & solve racism there, and everyone tells her to fuck off.
Very confused at the first part of your title which doesn't seem to have any connection to the rest of the post?
We had the other angle of this yesterday and stupidpol was out in force, unfortunately.
SHe has been drifting more and more reactionary over time during the pandemic. Too much twitter I guess.
we literally just had an upvoated post on this very com dunking on that very tweet and calling that very person an FBI plant
