Not really talking about the current job situation, but do you ever notice how there are no postings for really obscure positions that definitely exist but are never posted anywhere? I feel like David Graeber would have a lot to say
Many job positions are never made public and are either advertised internally to the company or even worse don't exist until some rich connected fucker asks for one to place their failspawn into.
A lot of jobs are locked away behind networking unfortunately. Every so often I'd see stuff that I'd be genuinely excited for (e.g. working on differential equation solvers at a nuclear power plant), but yeah usually the fun stuff like that which definitely exists just never makes it to public postings. I have a few engineering friends who will tell me the opportunity of being just the differential equations guy on an engineering team exists, and I believe them but I'd really appreciate if they let me know when their company is hiring. Right now it's more "oh yeah I know this boomer physics guy who is living your dream"
A lot of jobs are locked away behind networking unfortunately
death to neurotypical society
It wouldn't be so annoying if people didn't cling so hard to the meritocracy delusion. I remember being told as a kid that if I worked hard, it would pay off.
What I wasn't told was that my work would have to be seen by someone in a position of power.
I love not having the ability to make meaningless, vapid small talk and it actually impacting my career prospects
Hell I'm NT and I hate that shit too. I don't want to go waste time talking to randos, I have friends for that.
I didn't even think about that. If jobs are scarce in a capitalist system, they'd be hoarded and commodified too.
Why hire a random person when you can hire a relative or a buddy and get something in exchange? It would be leaving benefits on the table just to give the job to a qualified person who doesn't owe you anything.
Typically those jobs go to qualified and competent people as well. It's not a "fair" distribution system by any means, but it mostly works out because, tbqh, work generally isn't so prohibatively difficult to require rigorous hiring processes.
I didn't mean that the connected person who was hired is less qualified. I just meant that given self-interest in a capitalist society, people in charge of hiring would prioritize giving jobs to people they know or personally benefit from.
I mean that's just intrinsic bias, but it just sucks how pervasive it is on top of racism, sexism, classism, ableism, etc.
That on top of all those things keeping someone from fulfilling work, a hiring manager might hire their buddy or someone from a fraternity or one of their relatives.
And good point about the nature of work qualifications. Most jobs don't require intensive skill, education, or training that can't be taught on the job. I mean people wouldn't be able to get away with lying on their resumes otherwise.
people in charge of hiring would prioritize giving jobs to people they know or personally benefit from
also it's easier to do it that way. saves on advertising, reading applications, interviews, etc
Opportunity cost isn't really a thing that most hiring managers give a shit about. They also usually don't really benefit in many ways from the "best" candidate being chosen rather than a mediocre one that they have some other relationship to.
yeah they do this because it's easier for them personally and they don't care about the company that much
Typically those jobs go to qualified and competent people as well.
if you mean the vibes based method of measuring qualified and competent, then yeah that happens.
Sounds kinda like affirmative action but for your social circle
Extreme example, but I believe that’s maybe what @Magician@hexbear.net was getting at? Like you could have all of the qualifications, but you’re passed up by default because of who you are
It's definitely very frustrating as someone to whom social interaction doesn't come naturally.
I've seen clients where I work who talked about getting jobs because they were bored. It's so gross
In aviation new pilots are hired almost exclusively via networking (unless you want to work menial, underpaid and dangerous jobs). It literally is a commodity, specifically jet flight time.
I just found out a few days ago from colleagues that there is apparently a company that will let you pay them for your labor just for those sweet sweet hours.
Damn they’re not even locked behind a paywall?
Also, shit. I think this is why I was encouraged to join a frat during undergrad
I had a fucking interview for a IT support specialist position at one of the school districts here and the next day was told I didn't get the job. Suddenly right after that the IT support assistant role opened up. They clearly both hired the assistant for the specialist position and also wasted my goddamn time.
3 weeks ago I had an interview for another IT position that I felt like I nailed. They said I would know by that Friday. I still haven't heard anything. Supposedly they had a few people reschedule. They wanna consider the people who can't stick to a pre-decided time...
Have an interview in limbo currently while we try to figure out if I can work for the direct competitor of my last employer even though the job is completely different.
Had an interview yesterday that I think went ok but not great. $18-22 an hour and no 401k matching. Asked me if I could start right now and told them sure. And my stupid fucking ass is gonna take it if they offer it to me. It's literally half of what my last job paid.
I'm 40 years old and have been fucking doing this charade for the last 20 years because I can't hold a job because I'm neurodivergent and that doesn't matter to the corporate overlords.
Just fucking fuck man...
Find something that satisfies your soul instead of going down with the sinking ship like the others who drink the Kool-Aid
I wish I could
They're being shared on a need to know basis between managers and the employees they like. It's a big club and you ain't in it.
I can't help but think that this is just a tantrum for all the anti-discrimination laws.
You're not going to let white people abuse some type of racial nepotism system? Fine, well I will make ALL my hires nepotism hires since technically that's not discrimination. Oh, what a coincidence I don't happen to have any brown friends. Oh well, guess they'll have to starve.
I think it's just easier. Looking properly for the most meritous person for the job is a whole process when they know a guy that can do the job well enough and that takes minutes and they get to be the big man in their friend group
it results in racism and classism being perpetuated but it's clearly largely laziness
Yeah, I'd second this. Anecdotally, I work in a small/medium business and I've heard "does somebody know anybody who can _____" many, many times over the years. In the viewpoint of management, it's much easier, cheaper, and less risky to hire someone on referral than go through the entire application song and dance.
I've done a lot of interviewing as a relatively low level engineer and its an expensive process in general for a company. Per each candidate you're looking at a few hours per engineer, times how many people are on the interview. It ends up costing the company a few thousand just to talk to a candidate over the course of the processes.
If you're a company looking for 5 good employees, you're going to spend a lot of money interviewing all the people that don't make the cut, grabbing someone internally or by reference is far cheaper. It's sorta a gamble when moving on with an interviewee. You basically need to make a low information gamble based on a cheaper short screening, to see if its worth the time for a full interview.
I don't really support no-interview hires unless they previously worked in that position, left, and came back though.
Fire yourself from a cannon into Jobland. The jobs grow on jobbies there.
pretty sure the way like half of positions are actually filled are by a guy the manager just knows.
The place I work at is desperate to hire. The last 3 new hires have been through connections the manager has, all family or friends of family, and none of them have worked out very well. We’re constantly fixing their mistakes, but they fill a contract slot and make money for the company. They don’t pay enough to attract people with the right skillset, so here we are. They say nobody is applying, and they refuse to think that’s related to pay.
Several of the most productive workers for the company have left for better offers. Interestingly, the family and friend hires are the only ones that stick around despite competing offers floating by every so often.
This is what America is all about. Being exploited by your family for less pay than you'd be getting somewhere else.
one anxiety I have, is that I've not formally looked for a job for so long, all my knowledge for job seeking might be dangerously outdated. post-covid, post-AI, post-me-too, post-Trump, next gen surveillance, etc. I have no idea what kind of plot-holes I would be about to fall into.
I see the job search process as a consistent cycle
-Spend hours looking for a job
-Eventually make some progress with a position that is interested in you
-Become very hopeful that you might get an offer
-You learn it pays 30/hr max full time where the rent average is 1200/month and any negotiations are shot down hard
I know a lot of people would be very pleased with that pay, but Godamn I took at multiple loans and was told my major would get me a job that would “pay that back in no time.”
The job market kinda feels like an industry in and of itself
it's a numbers game you just make loads of applications until you get one
you absolutely shouldn't get emotionally invested in a job until they give you an offer. I would encourage you to forget you even applied until you hear back from them
you are 100% going about it wrong getting hopeful or invested before the concrete offer is not the way to go. There is a good chance with each application that no one even reads it because they get so many
you need to apply to many jobs. Having a good CV that highlights transferable skills is key. It's a process where high volume of applications is the most important thing
Hmm “transferable skills”
Was grilled in my head that technical skills/programming languages are the most important by far, so I guess I didn’t think to highlight soft skills. Maybe that could be a problem?
technical skills and programming skills are very good. But highlighting soft skills is also very important.
it's a numbers game you just make loads of applications until you get one
you absolutely shouldn't get emotionally invested in a job until they give you an offer.
It's a bit like online dating
I feel like there are only so many jobs you can apply to though. It’s not like a bottomless pit of choices
this is true. It can be hard to find jobs to apply for. You mentioned you have friends who work in industry asking them to let you know if there's a posting would be good.
A website where job openings are posted would be ideal. Really there should be a government department where every company has to register job openings, that would massively streamline the process as a central repository of all jobs would cut down on the search
I don't know what it was like before, but I can't help but think it's different than what it used to be. I'm a recent grad in computer science and I've been job hunting for a few months now. My resume isn't stellar, sure, but it's not abysmal either. I stopped bothering to keep track of how many resumes I've sent once I passed ~300ish two or so months ago. All to entry level positions, but otherwise across all sorts of things. I've tried remote and in-person across the country, lowered my salary expectations $10k/yr under the bottom quartile of starting salaries in my field, made it clear I'm willing to relocate, and had friends at a few different companies try to get me an in. I've yet to hear back from anywhere.
Gotta think that one of the big downsides of everything being remote in CS is that now everybody everywhere can apply for every job. If I find a posting on LinkedIn with less than 400 applicants on the first day, I consider it unusual. Seems logical that if 100x more people are applying for each post, you'd have to apply to 100x more places. Some very nice people on here offered to throw me in their referral system, but I chickened out last second. That probably wasn't the smartest move, honestly.
Anyways, didn't mean to turn a reply into a personal vent session, but yeah, I can't imagine that it's always been like this. It's completely maddening. The very reason I went into CS instead of fucking physics or philosophy was specifically because nobody shut the fuck up about how much demand there is for coders and I was too naive to really understand that when you hear that, it's usually more about collapsing wages than filling positions.
Actually now you can often easy apply on some of these sites, they'll ask you like 2 questions and take your resume
Oh it's been algorithms for a while
Here if you want to really beat the algo, and it's a job you really want
Put a cover letter as the first page of your resume. Make a 2 column table with the job requirements on left side, and your experience for each topic on the right. Skip meaningless job requirements just do the meaningful ones. Now you probably have all their keywords in your fucking resume, and when a human reads it they can see you fill all their requirements.
That means even if you don't have experience, say, operating trains, it still says the words "OPERATING TRAINS" inside your resume next to your response "well, I drive a tram ok" so you'll get selected by the stupid word search robot
Your resume will eventually be viewed by a human though, right? Isn’t that a bit of a barrier to gaming the bot?
No not a barrier at all. It's baller shit. Instead of having to process how your description of your past experience abstractly relates to their needs, you're directly saying every requirement is met. I would do this even if robots didn't exist.
Can shift quickly to handle unexpected tasks | I managed 5 accounts simultaneously and delegated and scheduled work from hundreds of emergency work requests
Preferred: Able to diagnose and repair Caterpillar or other heavy equipment failures | I have 4 years of experience with Komatsu machines and would be able to quickly translate those skills
Now your resume says CATERPILLAR and you can bet the hiring manager or recruiter put that word in as a keyword. You'll be bumped up based on that, and you are not only being honest, you're spelling things out and making it super simple for the person who has to scan 40 resumes
They might even put in really stupid keywords like "unexpected tasks" which you will only match if you are copying their description
Hi! I'm Dave, your associate cocaine salesperson! How can I help you today?
I'm confused. I don't know what a fed is, and would never rat you out to the Drug Enforcement Agency! It's not like I have a badge or anything...
: "No one owes you anything, kiddo. Just hire yourself and start your own business."(No really, make a BS 'business' and put it on your resume. Have a youtube channel? You're an editor-in-chief. Freelance? You're CEO.)
Second this. Also, get a friend who can take a referral call and can vouch for you as your manager. I've applied to literally thousands of jobs and the only job I've ever applied to that actually followed up on my contacts was a job with a state university because they have a rigid structure for their hiring process.
(No really, make a BS 'business' and put it on your resume. Have a youtube channel? You're an editor-in-chief. Freelance? You're CEO.)
I gotta try this, but I am too lazy to even run a YouTube channel
Do you have to? Say you are employed by a YouTuber, doesn't need to be a real guy or the guy doesn't really need to have you hired. The fuckers don't play fair, why should you?
look up reserve army of laboractually the bosses stopped creating jobs because we weren't grateful enough. the west has fallen. billions must apply.
No one wants to work anymore
Despite the fact that millions are anxious about not having a job 👍
Have you considered hobnobbing with rich people? Makes those sorts of jobs easy to find
You know, I could probably do a lil test. The local republican group meets weekly and I could go as serious worker trying to build connections and grow my network (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit)
churches and other religious organisations are also a great place to do that if you're willing to try anything
Capitalism requires huge numbers of unemployment so that they can use the precarity of work as a tool to threaten against collective action. Lot easier to lay everyone tryna unionise off and hire fresh hands when work is hard to come by and folks are starving.
And also... Uh... I may have eaten all the jobs. Sorry, but I was really hungry.
