Trump Crosses the Line, Embraces Nazi Ideology
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Trump Crosses the Line, Embraces Nazi Ideology
Removed by modAnother escalation against the proletariat, although I think that Biden's administration is sanctifying a lot of what Trump did in his previous term, which only gives more ideological unity to increasingly fascistic policies.
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If Donald Trump, with the fascistic ideas he espouses, is elected President in 2024, there may never be another free election in this country.
Damn, what if the US were no longer a democracy? Things would be so unfathomably different than they are now, I can’t even imagine. It beggars belief to even try to conceive of such a wildy absurd scenario.
I know there's joking about this on hexbear but I am genuinely terrified of the US going full fascist or Nazi, although I know this process began way before Trump and would've gone to completion without him anyway, and I do believe it is now inevitably going to happen sooner than I expected. I do consider it a larger existential threat to me and those around me than climate change or neoliberalism. Anyway, hope I'm just am alarmist doomer that is proven wrong.
That being said, I genuinely do not believe the US is currently a democracy anyway nor will I vote to support a lesser evil party or candidate like George Biden.
My take is both that there is no rapid shift to fascism on the horizon, and that things are already much worse than anyone wants to admit. A lot of people seem to be of the mindset that things are still sort of okay right now, but eventually there will be an inflection point where everything accelerates to being really bad. But things are bad now. This is the shift. This is what the transition looks like. This isn't Germany in the 1930s, things aren't going to look or feel like they did then. There isn't going to be another Hitler or Nazi Party, because the system doesn't need one. Everyone in the power structure is already on board with the transition to some version of fascism, and it's most of the way there. Plenty of people are being disenfranchised or dispossessed or killed all the time, in greater and greater numbers, and it's going to keep happening slowly enough that we'll only recognize it in hindsight.
It would be great if there were something as distinct as a rapid, visible shift to overt fascism, if for no other reason than that there would be a clear enemy to rally against. We simply aren't going to be so fortunate. The reality will look more like a natural slide, seemingly inevitable, and occurring despite lots of people appearing to be doing their best to stop it. Eventually there will be some sort of movement to counter it and things will shift again, but given that there doesn't seem to be any such movement happening at the moment, things will continue to deteriorate unabated for the foreseeable future.
This is also my prediction. I just meant that instead of seeing the US transition to fascism when I am in my old age it will probably happen less than 15 years at best.
My point is more that the transition is both already here and also will never fully manifest. There won't be a moment where things are suddenly bad, just a constant process of bad things normalizing before the next round of bad things. It won't "happen" so much as the process itself is the event, and we are already in it. I bet during the fall of the Roman Empire people thought "things are bad, but at least the worst is yet to come" for longer than the US has been a country.
Gods don’t let the transition to the next stage of development take hundreds more years: nothing on earth will survive but cockroaches if we aren’t able to reverse this within the lifetime of people living on the planet today.
That said, you’re totally right. The shift is now, and has been for a while, and will be for longer. It won’t be the Nazi party, because, power is already consolidated in the hands of the fascists. The big question is which group takes control? The technocrats? The christofash? Or do they all keep fighting it out for decades, making everyone’s lives worse in the meantime unless we can unite and revolt?
I could caveat what I said with “until something changes”. As things get worse, and as the inherent contradictions become impossible to ignore, there will be more reason for people to directly engage, and less for them to lose by doing so.
Even in my lifetime, in a prosperous country, I’ve seen general sentiment go from “this isn’t perfect, but it’s getting better” to “this isn’t good and it’s getting worse”. As an old millennial, my cohort is probably the last to get a chance at an even somewhat decent life in exchange for buying into the system, and even then we know we're not getting a better life than our parents. Anyone younger knows that they’re not getting the same chance, and they’re going to be radicalized at a much higher rate.
20 years ago there wasn’t much hope of anything but incremental progress, if that, but now it’s becoming clear that progress simply isn’t going to happen on its own. There’s definitely potential for things to change in the not too distant future, if only because we’re quickly running out of room for things to get worse.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply today. I fully agree with you on the current state of the system but I needed that hit of optimism at the end.
Haha, I don’t know if I’d call it optimism, but I think it’s not that difficult to look at history and see that our current trajectory is leading to instability, which allows for change to happen. It’s just not realistic to think that everything is going to get worse forever without any backlash.
Maybe you're right. I do expect it to get worse and fully manifest, but slowly and not necessarily immediately upon Trump's next inauguration or anything. I don't think believe the US will be special in its avoiding explicit fascism at the moment and I do think it'll accelerate and support similar fascism worldwide, as it already does anyway, but we'll inevitably see when it happens.
Yea libs love to act like we're 10% of the way there and gonna tip over the line if Trump wins. In reality we're 85% of the way there and Trump might bump that up to 90%.
And then it'll go to 95% the next time a dem wins and the chuds get equipped into a frothing rage that a lifelong neoliberal is doing a Marxist takeover of the country.
Thank you, that’s exactly what I’m getting at. We can debate about the proportions, but the point is that we’re so much closer to the worst case scenario than anyone thinks, but we’re also not going to all of a sudden jump to 100% overnight. The trajectory is steady, and maybe accelerating, but it’s still going to be incremental until something breaks. It’ll be like climate change, where we’ll only really notice the damage in hindsight.
i dunno.. i feel like we're constantly one more false flag terrorist attack away from full on fascist dictatorship and martial law that we never come back from.. look how quickly this escalated after 9/11 and we never recovered.. all it takes is a reason for these shitheads in power to feel a need for urgency
Again, my point is that there's no need for that kind of radical shift. What would the government be able to do under a "full fascist dictatorship" that they can't do now? Make abortion illegal? Commit genocide? Completely ignore public sentiment on every popular issue? Funnel all the power and wealth into the hands of a select few while the rest are treated as indentured servants? The current status quo is really, really bad, but in a way that keeps people in a perpetual state of thinking exactly along the lines that you're thinking, i.e. "things are bad, but thank goodness we aren't in a fascist dictatorship."
The powers that be literally just figured out that explicit fascism is a hard sell so they're doing soft fascism with a shiny coat of paint on it.
You get to chose which color tie the person doing the genocide wears.
You get to be performatively upset about things like the concentration camps when the wrong color tie is president.
You get to March with a million other people for a cause neither party gives a shit about, and they dont even shoot you in the head set your car on fire and rule it a suicide until you start actually taking meaningful steps towards those goals.
Exactly. They don’t even have to pretend to care. They can let people complain and march and write newsletters all they want, there’s no need to stop them because it doesn’t amount to anything. It’s like letting a toddler run around outside to get some energy out before you put them down for a nap. Why try to create some kind of draconian nightmare dystopia when you get basically the same result with a lax nightmare dystopia?
maybe at some point someone or some people decide peaceful protesting doesn't work and start incorporating violence in their demands?
things can't really continue as they have been forever.. people will get pissed enough sooner or later
Fascism is just liberalism under communist threat.
When there is no communism to threaten the bourgeois class, it manifests itself as liberalism.
They are one and the same. Don’t take it from me, take it from the arch liberal Winston Churchill.
The US is absolutely going down that path already. There's just no left to react to and the government is already so fascist that it has no need for brownshirts. As we build, as we begin to envision victory, you'll see that and worse. Despite this, we must organize.
I know there's joking about this on hexbear but I am genuinely terrified of the US going full fascist or Nazi
If it makes you feel any better, I doubt the US would fall as easily to that as Germany did. That's not to say they won't try, but I think modern day US is just far too divided for any kind of easy power grab. I think a more likely scenario is that an attempt to bring full fascism would only destabilize the country. This might even be an opportunity for the left to gain ground, especially given the popularity of left ideas among young people. These Christian Nationalists are absolutely as delusional as you think they are and I'm not sure they have any clue what will actually come out when they open up that box.
cpusa on their typical lib shit. Have they heard Biden speak about Palestinians lately? The Americans fully embraced fascism and its characteristics before it even came into being.
We've already condemned Biden and this is republished from a Daily Kos article.
Again, we publish and republish many people, such as Vijay Prashad, for example.
But it's the Daily Kos, a site that hasn't been relevant since 2008
It's a paint-by-numbers comparison between Trump and Hitler. How novel is that? The quality isn't even that good to be honest. First year college essay level.
Why are you making an equivalence between Vijay Prashad and Daily Kos
Is this in response to something new he's done? Because all i'm seeing is the basic "trump is a nazi" shit libs have spewed for the last 5 years.
That is exactly it sadly. A bunch of phoney communists with an idealist conception of fascism and an antecedent lack of understanding of imperialism.
I see that they 'republished' some liberal article from the Dialy Kos--so that spares them from the embarrassment of having wrote it, but it still begs the question as to why this was 'republished' in the first place? Its wrong at best, and actively harmful at worst. Does this article push forward the CPUSA line? Does the CPUSA even have a line? Reposting the whole thing verbatim sure makes it seem like they endorse every sentence. I'm just utterly baffled at this...
I can tell you definitively as a former member that no, there is no line. There's some great people trying to keep things afloat, but fundamentally the leadership doesn't answer to anybody and there is no application of any sort of plan or line. At one time I believed that because CPUSA was so thoroughly infiltrated and destroyed by American intelligence agencies that meant that it's basic structure was so dangerous to the status quo that reviving it would do good; but I don't believe that anymore. Not only is the correct structure necessary, which goes without mentioning that CPUSA has completely abandoned any pretense of structure outside of maybe New York, but also the people at the helm matter too. I don't think we should be quick to dismiss any large socialist movement without good reason and a good fallback plan; but CPUSA is neither large nor are there any good reasons to justify it's current state when things are so bad and the conditions are so ripe.
Show
This but for
maybe I hope 🤞Unfortunately I've had similar experiences with PSL :(
Without doxxing yourself, can you elaborate? This isn't an admonishment of PSL, just to have all the facts be available.
Ultimately it isn't as bad as CPUSA is being made out to be here (not familiar enough to weigh in), I was quick on the draw with that post. But I worked with my local branch in a major US city for 9 months in attempts to become a full on member, and ultimately was never invited to much by my mentor, who ended up ghosting me. On top of that, the big projects they seemed to be involved in was attempting to get local officials elected in, which is fine, but i know a lot of people were burnt out and jaded by that.
I applied twice and nobody ever got back to me
The that sounds like the most common problem I hear about them is their in-proccessing and on-boarding.
That and their dues requirement - though I might want to double-check if what I remember about that part is true.
Everytime I think that CPUSA might be worth looking into to join, they push out shit like this on the media front. I still might apply once I have the time, but stuff like this really turns me off to the organization. I'd be better of just ignoring their media front existed.
Nothing wrong with republishing an ultraliberal RussiaGate anti-communist publication? Lol ok
Pretty early for the liberal united front rhetoric from CPUSA. One would think they have nothing better to do. In fact, the timing makes me think this is intended to push back against flagging support for Biden, which is pretty gross given that we're trying to oppose a settler-colonial genocide, here.
I also wonder whether they have a single person that knows how to do strategy there. Who is the audience for this? Reactionaries will see this as an endorsement for Trump. Liberals won't care. Other self-proclaimed communists will push back on it. This leaves a squishy SocDem/DemSoc group of baby lefties made up mostly of people that will call you a tankie. For the remainder... it is November 2023. If this makes any of them talk to me about this bullshit already, I will hold you personally accountable.
"Pretty early for the liberal united front rhetoric from CPUSA. One would think they have nothing better to do. In fact, the timing makes me think this is intended to push back against flagging support for Biden, which is pretty gross given that we're trying to oppose a settler-colonial genocide, here."
That's not what this is about and we don't support or endorse Democrats.
"Who is the audience for this?"
People like me.
"urgency of voting for democrats to defeat the republicans and save democracy"
We do not.
"#voteagainstfascism hard in 2020"
We really didn't.
"armed struggle is categorically off the table, electoralism only"
It isn't.
"but you don't run competing candidates"
We do (see: justine Medina)
"and you don't want to criticize democrats too much for fear of hurting their electoral chances"
We've done a lot of this.
"and the republican is an existential danger to democracy that has to be stopped, specifically through voting"
We dont' believe this.
"and you view the green new deal and build back better as key struggles to peacefully move the us to literally bill-of-rights socialism"
We've never said this.
Uhh, you're taking a lot of these out of context; for example, we can't say out loud that we're not for peaceful means, otherwise you get the Third Red Scare.
That's not what this is about
It's what the timing speaks to. Anyone cognizant of the current political climate would not publish this unless they were trying to sheepdog for Biden. The only question is whether it's intentional or whether it's incompetence.
we don't support or endorse Democrats.
CPUSA has an explicit unified front with libs strategy: https://cpusa.org/party_info/party-program/. Section V in particular. Any time CPUSA members mention "all people's front" it's a helpful indicator.
The CPUSA chapter / whatever in my area explicitly canvassed for Biden.
CPUSA ran constant anti-Trump, clearly pro-Biden campaigns in 2020. See the Vote Against Fascism campaign: https://www.cpusa.org/article/call-to-action-vote-against-fascism/
People like me.
Does that mean CPUSA members or...?
Yes, CPUSA members. CPUSA did not do that during 2020. Also, that's not what the United Front is about.
Yes, CPUSA members.
So then it makes no sense. Something written for members that's published publicly and on Daily Kos first.
CPUSA did not do that during 2020.
It did and I've provided you with the examples.
Also, that's not what the United Front is about.
It obviously is.
It was republished from Daily Kos for the benefit of CPUSA members; in other words, curated.
"It obviously is."
It's not.
It was republished from Daily Kos for the benefit of CPUSA members; in other words, curated.
It feels condescending to explain this, but if it was published on Daily Kos first then its intended audience was not CPUSA members. While I disagree with the author, I do not think they're so incompetent that they think that is the way to communicate with membership and not, say, the largely SocDem/liberal audience of that website.
"It obviously is."
It's not.
I've used CPUSA sources to explain how it is. Please feel free to engage with the substance of what I've said.
"then its intended audience was not CPUSA members."
That makes no sense, no offense; it was clearly curated.
"the largely SocDem/liberal audience of that website."
It's meant to also attrack audiences outside of the Marxist-Leninist rank-and-file; you're over-focusing on one article.
"I've used CPUSA sources to explain how it is. Please feel free to engage with the substance of what I've said."
You've used only a few at best.
That makes no sense, no offense; it was clearly curated.
It doesn't make sense that no competent person would publish on a liberal blog in order to address communist party membership? Please explain.
It's meant to also attrack audiences outside of the Marxist-Leninist rank-and-file; you're over-focusing on one article.
It's obvious that this is the primary audience, yes. I assume the author isn't so incompetent as to think that publishing on Daily Kos is how you talk to CPUSA members.
Not sure what you mean by over-focusing. The entire post is just this article.
You've used only a few at best.
Please feel free to engage with the substance of what I've said.
"It doesn't make sense that no competent person would publish on a liberal blog in order to address communist party membership? Please explain."
I already said it was curated.
"It's obvious that this is the primary audience, yes."
It's not the only audience though.
"Not sure what you mean by over-focusing. The entire post is just this article."
Well, there you go.
"Please feel free to engage with the substance of what I've said."
I already have.
I already said it was curated.
And?
It's not the only audience though.
That's implied by the qualifier "primary", yes.
Well, there you go.
?
I already have.
Absolutely false.
