As expected, these guys don't give a shit about the Chinese people toiling under le evil SeeSeePee, considering how much of a disaster the USSR's break-up was for tens of millions of people. They only care that a threat to the current world order is eliminated.
Also, imagine caring so much for the current world order when your country isn't even at the top. Hindu Nationalism is one hell of a drug.
Liberals and leftists who dislike the CCP MUST understand that if the "evil CCP" is defeated, China will go down the EXACT same path as Russia. Leftists especially need to understand what color revolutions are. It seriously disturbs me how many "leftists" absolutely DESPISE China but have never done anything to counter U.S. imperialism.
It's infuriating because many of those "leftists" are simultaneously under the delusion that it's best for everyone involved "in the long run" (but also Russia bad lol), for both China and the World. Even way back when I was an anti-China/USSR SocDem, I thought the USSR collapsing the way it did was an objectively terrible thing.
I always found it interesting that the Tiananmen Square protests happened in 1989 right when all the other "pro-democracy" protests in the socialist world did, but it didn't succeed.
Meh. It was an internal conflict that combined western-inspired student protests with Maoist anti-land-reformists in support of an outgoing CCP leader's vision for the country. It's very difficult to pick sides in the fight, because it wasn't an East v West confrontation nearly so much as it was a Stalin v Trotsky domestic power struggle that manifested itself as a national media spectacle.
The Gang Of Four coming into and out of power in China did far more to shape the modern direction of the Chinese socialist character than this minor flare up on the eve of a multi-decade Chinese bull run.
I just think that the outcome of the Tiananmen protests is a good example of exactly why this is such a braindead map. China is even more cohesive now than it was back then, especially with the mauve expansion of transportation infrastructure linking everyone together.
if the “evil CCP” is defeated, China will go down the EXACT same path as Russia
The original play from the West was to install a Capital-friendly apparatchik akin to Yeltsin in the politburo. But Bo Xilai was ousted by Xi Jinping for doing far too many crimes for the rest of the leadership's tastes.
The effort to control China from above backfired in much the same way it backfired in Russia. But with the added twist that Communism, as an ideology, reasserted itself more strongly than at any point in post-Cold War geopolitics.
If "the evil CCP" is defeated, what Americans may find themselves with is an even more Based leftist movement.
considering how much of a disaster the USSR’s break-up was for tens of millions of people
Given the center-of-mass that is Russian regional politics and economics, I would not be surprised if the USSR reconstituted itself in some form over the next century. Similarly, the BRI out of China will create durable trade and travel routes that tie it to neighboring states and provinces in a manner not unlike the US Rail and Highway systems unified post-Civil War America.
Unlike the EU, which has shaped up more as a trade union than a real economic union, these other states are building real physical infrastructure to cement the legal and economic relationships they are forging through politics.
That was - ostensibly - Modi's pitch to the country when he took office half a decade ago. But Modi consistently failed to deliver, while putting economic pressure on rural states in a way that's fracturing his country along party lines.
I would not be surprised if the USSR reconstituted itself in some form over the next century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
Russia has supposedly been in a long and slow process of eventually merging with Belarus. A couple other countries have expressed interest in joining too, including breakaway states like Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But the whole thing doesn't seem certain to actually happen.
As expected, these guys don't give a shit about the Chinese people toiling under le evil SeeSeePee, considering how much of a disaster the USSR's break-up was for tens of millions of people. They only care that a threat to the current world order is eliminated.
Also, imagine caring so much for the current world order when your country isn't even at the top. Hindu Nationalism is one hell of a drug.
Liberals and leftists who dislike the CCP MUST understand that if the "evil CCP" is defeated, China will go down the EXACT same path as Russia. Leftists especially need to understand what color revolutions are. It seriously disturbs me how many "leftists" absolutely DESPISE China but have never done anything to counter U.S. imperialism.
It's infuriating because many of those "leftists" are simultaneously under the delusion that it's best for everyone involved "in the long run" (but also Russia bad lol), for both China and the World. Even way back when I was an anti-China/USSR SocDem, I thought the USSR collapsing the way it did was an objectively terrible thing.
I always found it interesting that the Tiananmen Square protests happened in 1989 right when all the other "pro-democracy" protests in the socialist world did, but it didn't succeed.
Tankiest I've ever been
This is why the repression at Tiananmen Square ended up being good for China in the long run
:sicko-yes:
Meh. It was an internal conflict that combined western-inspired student protests with Maoist anti-land-reformists in support of an outgoing CCP leader's vision for the country. It's very difficult to pick sides in the fight, because it wasn't an East v West confrontation nearly so much as it was a Stalin v Trotsky domestic power struggle that manifested itself as a national media spectacle.
The Gang Of Four coming into and out of power in China did far more to shape the modern direction of the Chinese socialist character than this minor flare up on the eve of a multi-decade Chinese bull run.
I just think that the outcome of the Tiananmen protests is a good example of exactly why this is such a braindead map. China is even more cohesive now than it was back then, especially with the mauve expansion of transportation infrastructure linking everyone together.
"The students are nuts if they think this handful of people can overthrow our Party and our government."
-- Wang Zhen, Chinese Communist official, May 1989
They're just neolibs who want Healthcare.
Years of imperial conditioning leaves lots of :brainworms: .
Can't believe people who grew up in the imperial core would be indoctrinated in imperialist mindset.
Damn out comes my inner :meow-tankie:
The original play from the West was to install a Capital-friendly apparatchik akin to Yeltsin in the politburo. But Bo Xilai was ousted by Xi Jinping for doing far too many crimes for the rest of the leadership's tastes.
The effort to control China from above backfired in much the same way it backfired in Russia. But with the added twist that Communism, as an ideology, reasserted itself more strongly than at any point in post-Cold War geopolitics.
If "the evil CCP" is defeated, what Americans may find themselves with is an even more Based leftist movement.
Given the center-of-mass that is Russian regional politics and economics, I would not be surprised if the USSR reconstituted itself in some form over the next century. Similarly, the BRI out of China will create durable trade and travel routes that tie it to neighboring states and provinces in a manner not unlike the US Rail and Highway systems unified post-Civil War America.
Unlike the EU, which has shaped up more as a trade union than a real economic union, these other states are building real physical infrastructure to cement the legal and economic relationships they are forging through politics.
That was - ostensibly - Modi's pitch to the country when he took office half a decade ago. But Modi consistently failed to deliver, while putting economic pressure on rural states in a way that's fracturing his country along party lines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
Russia has supposedly been in a long and slow process of eventually merging with Belarus. A couple other countries have expressed interest in joining too, including breakaway states like Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But the whole thing doesn't seem certain to actually happen.
Nothing is certain, and the US is certainly fighting tooth-and-nail to prevent it.
But how long we can keep blue-balling every other emerging regional power on the planet is questionable.