Windows
11 tpm requirementis planned obsolescenceyou literally buy every single one planning for it to be obsolete in 7 years for no reason
An OS should be considered basic software infrastructure, remain free and open, and be maintained continuously such that many decades of hardware can continue running well even with the latest security and feature updates.
In short, an OS should be Linux.
I'm going back to windows 98, sorry linux people telling me to ditch micro$hit.
Do you retro game on it? I'd love to build a retro PC some day.
im still somewhat in the process of restoring it. mainly software and drivers at this point. but yes it will become a retro gaming machine when im finished
Might be the push I need to switch to Linux, time google whatever the fuck a "ubuntu" is.
Linux has what is called distrobutions which is when someone packages an OS... Ubuntu is considered the most popular and it has official flavors/spins or whatever they call them anyway one of these Ubuntu flavors is Kubuntu which is the distro I recommend because it uses a thing called KDE Plasma
Let me know if you've any questions, you can always ask in !libre@hexbear.net too
any thoughts on kubuntu vs mint? this thread has got me thinking i should give linux another shot after some very unsuccessful forays in the past, but the number of distros is kinda overwhelming
my focus is definitely on minimal ongoing hassle and avoiding command line shit wherever possible
Well, anecdotally I’ve had a bit more trouble with Mint than any official Ubuntu flavor. For your first real try, I’d recommend going with just regular, plain old Ubuntu. The documentation and online resources benefit from its popularity and it doesn’t change much between releases.
Linux is much nicer to maintain than Windows even when you’re not fiddling with the nuts and bolts of it, but I haven’t found a situation where avoiding the command line has made my life any easier. Just accept that you’ll have to learn a tiny bit of command line stuff (that will save you time and headaches down the line) and don’t sweat it if you don’t remember how to do something, there’s tons and tons of info online.
i appreciate the response, and im not trying to call you out or anything or start a struggle session here, but i feel like its a real blind spot of the open source community in general to not realise just how much of an absolute dealbreaker command-line stuff is for so many people. i get for people in the it sector etc that a lot of it is second-nature, and im sure its a timesaver in a lot of instances, but i will take the worst piece-of-shit gui over the most elegant and intuitive command line 1000% of the time and i dont think im alone. im not super techy but i grew up on dos, ive tried debian and redhat in the past, ive recently had to muck around in shell in macos, and i fucking hate command line. if anything, in many ways a little bit of command line is worse than a lot of command line, because youre just parroting what some guide is telling you without the slightest idea of what youre actually doing
no struggle session needed my friend, I completely understand your points
Linux, unfortunately, still suffers from a lot of stuff that’s pretty anti-user, where something that should have been a solved problem 10 years ago is still missing or half-baked, and the people working on it don’t bother improving it because it doesn’t hinder their personal workflow. The relative necessity of the command line is one of those things.
With KDE and Gnome being what they are now, you can basically avoid using the terminal in 2021. It might still be necessary for some more machine level stuff, but for general purpose you can do most things in a GUI now. AppImages work like exes on windows too so you don't even need to use your package manager, just use whatever the built in "store" is for your distro.
these days my home desktop is mostly web, piracy, videos, and vidya, nothing terribly fancy
i realise the vidya will likely mean keeping a windows partition anyway
Lutris+Wine has been great for me, even on heavier/newer stuff like UE4 games
90% of what I play could run on a toaster from 2006 though so ymmv
All of these things can be done on linux with no need for the command line whatsoever but you might have trouble with running multiplayer vidya that don't support linux natively unless they're one of these (there are other multiplayer games that also work)
If what you're saying were wrong we'd still be using ms-dos. It is astounding that many are still blind to it and how every single time someone says "you'll still need to use command line though" they are essentially writing down the dealbreaker for the vast majority of people.
I haven't tried mint myself and honestly I don't like the design... KDE's really good because it's more than just a desktop environment and it's a very active development and community so things are always improving. KDE's also what my parents are using so yeah I'd recommend Kubuntu, check this post if you go with it
Edit: and my parents don't know what a command line is
I'm gonna second trying out Ubuntu but also recommend removing snap and replacing it with flatpak at your leisure.
I tried KDE out again recently and I find the settings menu in KDE to be a bit labyrinthine these days. GNOME is terrible in many ways but the settings menu isn’t as much of a clusterfuck.
They're working on it tho and I think it's way easier for a Windows user to switch to KDE because it looks familiar.
Once again, I am recommending Zorin to anyone who's coming fresh from Windows. It's a distro based on Ubuntu with a focus on GUI tweaks that bring the Ubuntu experience closer to Windows.
Plus because it's just Ubuntu, you can use the Ubuntu forums.
OK so you remember in Windows XP and Vista days when everyone had goofy replacement shells and deviantArt themes that give you a different taskbar/start menu and style titlebars so they’re prettier than the defaults?
That’s what Linux distributions are, they’re all Linux inside but all the stuff on top is different. Ubuntu is a distro that focuses on being easy to use. It has a dock on the left side of the screen and a little statusbar on the top, kinda like mobile OSes.
The two biggest hurdles in switching to Linux blind are figuring out how to run the same (or equivalent) software as you did on Windows, and figuring out how to change a setting that had a simple GUI toggle in Windows but requires editing a config file or something in Linux. Using the command line is easy and fast once you get familiar with a few commands. Once you start to wrap your head around how Linux does stuff you’ll never want to use Windows again.
linux would get more users if the most common distros werent named weird nonsense words
New distro idea: computer OS. It's an OS for your computer.
I mean any Intel HD graphics that's from the 5th generation and above (like Intel HD 5500) is DX12 capable, and those are integrated graphics. Will they run DX12 enabled programs well? Absolutely not, but it will run it somehow at least.
Probably doesn't need to be discrete. And I think the DX12 is why you only need 4gb ram to run it. Looks to be a lot of graphical niceties in this one, which I'm frankly down with. Sucks that you can't use your ten year old X220 though. Love that fucker
You need 4gb ram minimum because they are dropping support for 32 bit computers, only 64 bit stuff. Not related to Direct X stuff
But, like, a 64 bit processor can still use RAM less than 4GB? It's just that a 32 bit CPU can't address more than 4gb?
Yes. Basically the highest number a 32 bit system can deal with is 2^32 which is 4gb. So if that system had an 8gb ram stock it could not store a number large enough to addresses the spots after the 4th Gb.
And a 64 bit system can use anything from 0 to 2^64
A 32-bit processor uses addresses that are 32 bits long. There are only 4,294,967,296, or 4GB, possible 32-bit addresses.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2013751/why-cant-32-bit-windows-access-4gb-of-ram.html
Folks just need to be building more native software for linux so we can get away from everything windows. Looking at you gamedevs
Between Wine, Lutris, and Valve’s work on Proton and DXVK it’s actually in a really good place compared to even just a year ago. What are you having issues with?
yeah but it isnt perfect and perfection is what i need because im a dork and tinker with shit a lot
also a lot of anticheat software for games sucks with wine and stuff
The anticheat issues are actually solved on recent versions (for some anticheat software) or development branches that should see release soon (for the rest).
I still can't play Vermin Tide 2 cause of the bullshit anti cheat stuff but I don't think I've had trouble with a single other game.
Honestly they should be thanked for what they've achieved which is huge... they're providing a compatibility layer for a closed source OS. I do understand it might be frustrating not being able to run a certain program.
i mean for sure, its impressive. a lot of emulation stuff is also impressive too. but the goal of emulation and so on is perfection, so hopefully they work out a couple more kinks. i intend on swapping to linux anyways when i build a new computer, at least to try it out for a couple months. i used to do it long ago and i got too frustrated with the lack of compatibility, and reserved linux for old computers that i use for basic home servers and stuff
I’m struggling to understand why they would want to do this. Wouldn’t it benefit them to have Windows compatible with as many computers as possible? I feel like there’s something else going on here. Could it be a security thing? Or are they getting kickbacks from hardware vendors?
Windows 10 already chugs really hard on 4GB of RAM and a mechanical hard drive in my experience, so probably can't go any lower on the minimum specs if they're bloating the OS even more. Still shit change and reasoning, Microsoft should focus on debloating their crap, there's no need for it to be like this.
It's practcally unusable on a 7.2K RPM disk. I had to put it on a solid state.
My work PC is running Win10 on a 7.2K RPM disk. It’s miserable first thing in the morning when I turn it on, but things run fine after it finishes booting up. I had to disable every visual effect, startup application, and unnecessary background service that I could to get it to that point, though. Pretty sure I have search indexing off.
it's insane how badly optimized windows is lol, i have a linux box running on a years-old quad core with a 5400rpm drive and it only takes like 15 seconds to boot
Yeah these minimum specs are always bs anyways. Has anyone tried running Windows 10 on the minimum specs of 2GB ram, 1GHz dual core processor and a mechanical hard drive or super slow SD card/electronic storage, at 800x600 resolution? Must be a living nightmare.
It’s nowhere near as bad as people thought it would be. The idea is to provide secure secondary storage for various encryption keys and cryptographic signatures that is resistant to tampering and enables things like automatic decryption of your hard drive, verification that the boot code and kernel haven’t been modified, and things like that.
There are several theoretical use cases that are pretty awful (DRM enablement, OS lockdown through secure boot) that are possible but never came to pass.
I mean I don't know shit about it but if I was the NSA I would absolutely say "yeah let's have em all stick a special chip on the board that does cryptography that we definitely don't have direct access to somehow"
Desktop operating systems (Windows, Linux) are miles behind mobile operating systems (Android, iOS) when it comes to full disk encryption. Android and iOS do it out of the box and you don't even notice, but if you want to set something like this up on Windows or the vast majority of Linux distros, you really have to tread into the weeds. It would be a blessing for this to change.
Linux MInt gives you the option for encryption during install. Either home partition or entire disk. I've had full disk encryption for years.
I was thinking about this recently, for the myriad failings of mobile systems (non-free hardware and software, walled gardens, software design geared toward rent-seeking, etc.) they sure have great usability. Apps are rarely an incomprehensible mess when you first install them. Settings menus can get messy but it’s often easy enough to find what you need and quick settings are never more than a swipe away.
Desktop systems have tons of unaddressed pain points that have no reason to exist.
Pretty bold to type this out when computer hardware is record high prices and historic unemployment. Junker gang, please rise up.
Junker gang here
:wojak-nooo:
some person can't get Nvidia drivers to work for their GTX 3090 or whatever the fuck they call it now
:gigachad:
Me on Intel HD graphics 2500, last got a driver update in 2015, playing a game from 2004
When the original Doom 3 is still an intensive test for your PC at 720p, and your phone is probably more powerful hahahaha
Your computer costs more than I earn in a year. Just the graphics card alone is 1500USD in my country. The CPU is another 500USD. RAM 250USD. SSDs are another 400USD. Like come the fuck on comrade, do you not realise how expensive this shit is in the global south? Bragging about your PC to own the poors on hexbear.net is a weird af move.
:whywhywhywhywhy: :why-post-this: :what-the-hell: :huey-wut:
Reminds me of the people who rev their sports cars down the street below my bedroom window.
It is actually very performant on this system since the desktop was rewritten to QT. Quite low requirement, and can make good use of the integrated graphics. Very good Chinese support without any tweak as well.
Very interesting! @Windows97 you said you wanted to try Deepin, right?
Actually first time I hear about their switching to QT what I heard is Deepin integrates GTK apps well but QT ones look ugly
I've run deepin a little bit as an experiment and it looks great but I didn't use it long enough to get a great overview of it. It does integrate well with GTK though. Also it being rewritten to qt seems to check out with cutefish and JingUI running on a heavily modified kde. Going off of what @skeletorsass just shared they either fixed the qt integration problem or it wasn't as bad as I/others recall.
The tpm requirement is actually planned obsolescence because it can be installed without by a somewhat simple hack. I hope these people making fun of "junkers" are memeing.
https://winaero.com/how-to-install-windows-11-without-tpm-2-0/
This is chad behavior https://itsfoss.com/mystory-linux-13-years-laptop/
Incredible posturing from someone with a mind-numbingly mediocre intel+nvidia build
32GB RAM but a 4GB VRAM GPU
all disks SATA, no NVMe, shit transfer speeds
CPU beaten on both price:performance and pure performance by AMD
let’s revisit the 4GB 3070 holy shit lmao
1080p TN film 144Hz “gamer” monitor
Your build is shit. Your posts are shit. Enjoy your requisite turtle beach headset and RGB keyboard, gamer trash.
The parts are still so fucking expensive in my country lol
Oh yeah it’s dreadful, I just wanted to dunk in a language I knew they’d understand. I’m a huge proponent of old and low-spec PCs.
Yeah like a did a breakdown of how much it would cost someone to build a computer like that in my country, suprise suprise it's more than I earn in a year lol. I literally just upgraded from a 720p to 1080p screen. I'm enjoying it so far tbh
And even if you had the money why would you spend it on this? Why replace a device that's still good and you can use perfectly fine (even better with a lite linux distro) because of MS bloated spyware OS?
Gotta get in all the owns and dunks™ on all the poors on hexbear.net I guess.
hey I’m repping old hardware and linux in all my other comments, forgive me my indulgent dunks (on the OP, who posted cringe consumerism with their overpriced gamer garbage PC)
i’d never dunk on my fellow poors
I have no idea if I should be proud of that or not (I haven’t seen glengarry glen ross)
Yeah let me keep using buggy software from a company whose build and hosting infrastructure got compromised to distribute malware so I can show off my shiny toys on my favorite leftist shitposting forum, that’s a smart move.
Congratulations on the NVMe drive though! I’m sure the gamer brand has incredible reliability and definitely sustains those read/write speeds under load when you blow through the drive’s cache loading your 160GB shooty shooty call of doody games.
The desktop PCIe cards work fine (though they're still dicks about the drivers and AMD is the way to go for wayland support). The "Optimus" shit they make for laptops is pure misery though.
Maybe the reason you struggle with the self hatred thing is bc your a petite bourgeois prick
Lol idgas friendo, if you wanna not think through what a hypocrite moron you’re being about this thats on you. Have fun playing the fancy video games mommy and daddy bought you, overprivileged idiot
UwUUnyuUwa is buying a new rig for everyone on Hexbear, pass it around
When I went to Argentina 15 years ago this was a real thing. Not exactly "beefy," but you could get on CS 1.6 or WOW. I'm a gringo but I used to be in a doom 2 clan with a bunch of Peruvians too.
How about a method for free for fucking Jeff Bazos: Order the PC or laptop your want (MUST BE EITHER SOLD OR FULLFILLED BY AMAZON), get a ftid for 15$, wait 2 weeks, call amazon and tell them you sent the return and enjoy your free PC and refund from Jeff for the full amount ^_*. You can do this for any items. I made my whole streaming step up using this.
What about all the people in the global south who can't afford new computers? Literally any discrete graphics card for powerful than a gt 1030 costs more than my monthly salary once you factor in import tax. Fuck them I guess? What a shit comment.
I just find it surreal lol. It's like I'm back at the highschool I got a scholarship to and all the rich kids are bragging about their new toys. Used to it by now I guess, didn't expect it on here of all places, thought we dealt with this kind of behaviour after the wallstreetbets fiasco.
This is how we can have mod elections on hexbear! Campaign promises baby #:vote:
Can’t believe I Have to say this here but uh... not everyone can afford that and paying for shit shouldn’t be the test by which people are allowed to enjoy things
Why? The junker can still do anything I would want very well. I do not want to play shit first person shooter game or use awful bloated program that require 16gb of ram.
Honestly, you sound like a manchild. Take this pathetic shit back to /g/.
you can pry my 2012-era ThinkPad X230 with integrated graphics from my cold dead hands
No, unfortunately. Libreboot is limited to stuff from the Core 2 era, so like 2009 and earlier. The T/X/Wx30 series is corebootable, though, and
me_cleanerpretty successfully neuters the Intel chipset backdoor
its an OS though, it should be made simple, its good design because more resources can be used for actually useful things
I've brushed upon the limit of 16GB only twice. Compiling QtWebEngine from source code (8 simultaneous threads hit over 2GB per job. Could be fixed by letting some cores sit idle, but browser engines take longer to compile than compilers these days), and feeding hundreds of scanned pages from a pirated book through ImageMagick and feeding it to an OCR program.
The big problem is that up until fairly recently, almost everything was still using TPM 1.4, not 2.0, and many AMD systems omitted a TPM entirely. So there’s a huge number of machines out there that are in every other way more than capable of running Windows 11 but cannot due to this frankly arbitrary requirement.
Yeah! Which is very nice cuz now chapos can't say we're bullying them into using linux when it's MS that's doing it :sicko-yes:
There might be some janky and possibly insecure version of it in Intel CPUs but I think you usually need an external one if you have a desktop motherboard. Motherboards have TPM pins than you can plug one into. Laptops probably come with them these days. Mine did.
Are these specs higher than windows 10 or very high? Has it been possible to buy a computer with less than 4 gb ram in the last 15 years?
Windows 10 was 2GB minimum requirements, and 800x600 screen resolution minimum. There are many "cheap" laptops and PCs sold with 4GB RAM in my country. This change is going to be very painful here, especially the DX12 and 720p requirements. Most universities still run 1024x768 screens and nothing modern enough to have DX12 on it, outside of the "specialist" PC'S in engineering faculty.
Microsoft is going to have another windows xp situation because windows 10 home/pro will be supported till 10/14/2025. Microsoft even sold surface devices with 2gb of rams. I hope some government forces Microsoft to extend support because we at least deserve 10 year support like the past windows versions got.
Yeah my old laptop already chugs hard on Windows 10, and it has 4GB ram. No way I'm going to put windows 11 on it, it will just make it even slower.
d nothing modern enough to have DX12 on it, outside of the “specialist” PC’S in engineering faculty.
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2954260/these-graphics-cards-and-processors-support-windows-10s-directx-12-graphics-tech.html
Intel: Intel Haswell (4th gen. Core) and Broadwell (5th gen. Core) processors
AMD: Radeon HD 7000-series graphics cards, Radeon HD 8000-series graphics cards, Radeon R7- and R9-series graphics cards, and the following APUs (which meld CPU and GPU on a single chip): AMD A4/A6/A8/A10-7000 APUs (codenamed “Kaveri”), AMD A6/A8/A10 PRO-7000 APUs (codenamed “Kaveri”), AMD E1/A4/A10 Micro-6000 APUs (codenamed “Mullins”), AMD E1/E2/A4/A6/A8-6000 APUs (codenamed “Beema”)
Nvidia: GeForce 600-, 700-, and 900-series graphics cards, GTX Titan series
basically things after 2014 support DX 12
It's about how much ram Windows itself needs to run without having programs open... also now a MS account is required
now a MS account is required
I did see a video that shows if you aren't connected to the internet while installing it (or something like that), you're able to get around that requirement. Still total BS though.
I had to do this for windows 10 also. After initial install, I was able to change settings to have offline logins
Yeah but that doesn't stop the spying... is there a specific reason why you can't ditch windows altogether?
I do like the idea of Linux. I tried Ubuntu in 2006 but found it cumbersome and obnoxious. Maybe there are better ones now, but I'm just really used to windows. Waiting for the open source revolution on PC has been hard. I'm not interested in having Samsung Dex as my main OS
2006 is ages ago! If you've a USB you can try linux out without installing it via live usb (or you can do it via a virtual machine. I actually made my parents switch to linux and it only took me a couple of mins to show them how it works and they've been using it for months now
Check Kubuntu out and you might find it helpful if you switch to open source cross platform apps first, see this post
I was thinking of using Linux Mint and installed it on a thumb drive too. It was in 2010 or something. And didn't go through with it. Mint looks superficially a bit more like windows.
See my comment about Mint and KDE. You can just try them out and see which you like
I love Linux Mint and I use it specifically because of Cinnamon. I hate fancy desktops, Cinnamon is the sweet spot. XCFE is also pretty good. Mint offers an XCFE version. Also, you can install pretty much any desktop environment you want and choose them at start-up but it is easier with Ubuntu to do that since it comes in so many release flavors.
If you don't connect to the internet when you install windows 10, you don't need a Microsoft account.
When I bought my computer, it came pre installed and was asking for a Microsoft account. I didn't know of any option not to do that, so we used an old msn-messenger email.
If you skip where it asks for wifi/don't plug in Ethernet, you can skip making an account. If you connect to the internet at any point you will need one though. When I setup my mom's laptop I just wiped it and reinstalled from scratch, didn't even bother to go through the setup.
I don't know why Microsoft even bothered making it a new numbered version. It's literally just the next major Windows 10 update, but they are giving it a new name. It's all just fixes for problems Windows 10 has with laptops.
Knowing that I doubt the installation process will be any different.
Remember when the UEFI standard seemed to exist solely to prevent non-microsoft bootloaders?
If I understand it correctly it's a chip that generates encryption keys - so basically they're locking out any computer that doesn't have that chip.
so I either have to buy a whole ass new PC or buy a new chip for windows 11 to work?
yeah I think I'd rather be an off the grid luddite than that, microsoft. consume penis, gill bates
Yep - it basically bars any computer made before 2014, and I don't think you can get them as a part.
Oh noooo... I can't use the new Windows 11? I'm so sad... how terrible
