Yeah I did that shit for a few years, it's fine, good job even, aside from the one or two abusive assholes I worked for. The most it ever paid was about $15/hr, but the business owner loved to go on vacations to Hawaii every 6 months, so it's definitely exploitative, like all wage labor under capitalism. Still, not bad for a job that requires no schooling or special training.
Remember there are disabled people who need these services to survive.
I don't think there is anything wrong with having someone else clean your house if you do not feel like it. It's more the attitude we have that house-cleaning is low work that is the problem. If you treat them with the same respect you treat your mechanic or your doctor or your dentist or your carpenter or your electrician or anyone else who does something you either do not know how to do or would prefer not to do.
Neurodivergent, dementia, etc etc
Remember intersectionality
You'd think people would have noticed that after over a year of a pandemic reminding people how important it actually is...
Isn't that just what supers are? Or Stanley Steamer? Or Merry Maids? Making these services something operated and organized by the community would be better, but it's not like industrialization of housework doesn't exist, it's just locked behind a paywall.
So what you're saying is that the capitalist economy is structurally hostile to the industrialisation of housework? :angela: she don't miss.
I'm not disagreeing lol, just showing that there exists a solution already. Nationalize Stanley Steamer and Merry Maids
Yeah I just wanted to point out that the point she made was exactly correct and you can see it directly today because the service that exists actually provides very little good to the people who need it most, because it's locked behind the paywall.
Yeah its not particularly relevant to this post, I just remembered this line when I saw the post and now am tricking people into reading Davis. The capitalist involvement in the system does however make it somewhat of a luxury item though, so we are faced with a lot of the same problematic stuff of wealthy people's housework being outsourced to black and poor people. Nonetheless, you are correct that massively building this sort of nationalized Stanley Steamer would alleviate the issues she lays out.
I just read this but im not sure if I understood it well. Is capital hostile to industrializing housework because "housewives" already work for free? Therefore there is no incentive for it? I feel like I'm missing something. The south africa bit was where I started to get confused, i think.
If you go out to eat at a restaurant instead of cooking your own food, you're a rich douchebag and hiring a "cook" is peak western chauvinism.
If you go out to a auto shop instead of fixing your own car, you're a rich douchebag and hiring a "mechanic" is peak western chauvinism.
Yeah but you cant bring your house along to get it cleaned somewhere else
These people never complain about hiring yard services or ubers
I can kind of see where first person is coming from because of the historically racial and class connotations of domestic workers in colonial societies, but i think it's a case of confusing the specific with the general. I don't think there's anything inherently exploitative or chauvinistic in fairly paying someone to clean, the problem is that it's almost never fair, and those jobs are of course often done by people who are in especially coercive circumstances.
I guess what I'm saying is that we must press the big Socialism button in order to make maids unproblematic
The first place I moved into out of college was a room I rented in a house that was owned by a guy who was much older and established. He worked in tech and did fine, but he was renting out two rooms to go towards alimony or child support payments. Once every like 6 months or so, he asked if we could all put in money for someone to come and clean the house just to give it a once over. This was primarily because he was never home and he lived with two 20-somethings.
My girlfriend at the time absolutely freaked out at me saying that we were exploiting people and that she wasn't making much more money than the people who would be cleaning our house. I was sort of shocked because it wasn't even my decision in the first place, they were going to be properly compensated for their labor, and it was something he did like once or twice a year. She's an RBG girl boss lib now and in retrospect, it was probably just projection.
Cleaning professionals around the world are braver than RBG
I wish it was more "socially acceptable" to hire cleaning people, because I would gladly give up a few weeks of beer money to have someone come and clean my apartment. Shit is hard on a full-time work schedule, and my neuroses don't make it any easier.
I think this just shows how much our current schedules assume the unpaid housekeeping labor of wives when they were set. It’s impossible for my partner and I to both work full time and keep our house in order.
Tho personally rather than hire a fleet of house cleaners I’d rather we just distribute the surplus value more efficient such that we needn’t work 40-60 hours a week and could actually take care of it ourselves
In the UK it is. I've lived in a few shared houses where because we're all working during the day and responsibilities in a shared house are a pain in the ass that cause conflict it is far easier to pay for a once per week cleaning service that comes in and runs over the house for an hour or 2 while everyone is at work.
There's no stigma around this, no issues, it's fairly normal particularly in shared situations. Cost us like £40/wk shared 4 ways which is pretty ok given other home costs also shared 4 ways make it affordable for people with even entry-tier office job wages. Our cleaners may have been earning more than I was at that time actually.
Anyway it's something I'm quite happy to pay for when sharing accommodation with others purely because it removes any conflict that would come over cleaning responsibilities and people who come up with petty shit to argue about. I don't want any person getting upset at another because someone didn't properly clean up after themselves resulting in someone else having to do it. It's really helpful in that regard.
I hire a lady to clean my apartment since I struggle to keep up with some of the tasks especially vacuuming and dishes due to sensory issues but also just things my brain glosses over and didn't notice and we get along really well actually, we talk a lot during and she gives me a big discount since I help her with stuff when she can point it out and we've basically become friends, I don't think cleaning services are inherently bougie some of us kinda need that help instead of just "I'm rich, I want a maid to mistreat"
Calling it a “cleaning service” instead of a maid is worse actually. Distancing from the personal nature of it and the fact that it’s a human cleaning up after your lazy slob ass.
Lots of bougie people outing themselves in this thread. It takes the least of efforts unless you live in a pig den.
Go clean your room, bucko :jordan-eboy-peterson:
I think there are probably some people that do just want to be maids or butlers like in a lord's house. They do not want to get treated like crap and society looks down on those roles, so they don't get to pursue those goals. I think there are also people that would benefit from or enjoy having that sort of help in their life but also wouldn't get off on the power dynamic. I think, once we hit the communism button, it will be cool to see those two groups interact and mutually benefit without the idea that domestic work is worthless and that anyone who does it is less than garbage, and that no one should need or want help in daily tasks.
Being a housekeeper/butler/ladies maid/valet for a communal house or apartment might be legitimately a cool and respected job. Like there's a lot to like about running a well-organised household full of people who are well dressed and know what they're doing today. It's basically being the production manager of people's lives and should get the same respect.
exactly. It nly sucks right now because of all the cultural stigma and attitudes we have about it. helping people stay on top of things and have their material lives together is nothing to look down on.
I think there are probably some people that do just want to be maids or butlers like in a lord’s house. They do not want to get treated like crap and society looks down on those roles
Those people should get mental health treatment (and so should their employers) so they don't have these sick master/slave dynamic. Serving another human like that for pay is inherently demeaning.
