Seems like the material human cost of space travel never even occurs to them. The poor indigenous people who mine the precious metals and iron etc. that make the spacecraft, the massive costs of feeding and housing all the engineers and scientists working on Musk's futile vanity project -- none of that is even on their radar. They reason that because SpaceX is more efficient and cost effective than Boeing/Lockheed/Northrop that Elon deserves all the praise in the world. In their eyes, Elon is "selflessly" dedicating his time and money to "saving" the human race by making it multi-planetary. The OP calls anti-Elon people "cultural authoritarians" fueled by "billionaire-hate" who want us to be "imprisoned on this planet forever".
Imprisoned on this planet???????
Are you fucking kidding me? Every good thing a human being could possiby want is on this planet. What's on the moon? Grey rocks. What's on Mars? Red dust. There's nothing out there. There's really nothing in space worth having. If you're not happy on earth, that's not a problem with earth, that's a problem with you (or the social or economic structure around you). Moving to a new planet is not going to solve your self esteem problems. That whole thread is just full of so much bullshit.
So many of SpaceX's milestones are "first time a private company did <thing two governments did in the 70s>" and I just can't understand why that's something we're supposed to be excited about.
:this:
Like what the fuck, it's just private companies just re-inventing things done decades ago for the most part. The only thing of value so far from this is re usable rockets, and even that's a bit overvalued. The USA would be much more successful if they decided to work together, with backing only a government can give. Like NASA during the space race.
Yeah I get that, but you think private companies would be smarter about it. I dunno, require the patents to some rocket designs or something before starting from zero
people have extremely short memories and have forgotten all that shit
Imprisoned on this planet
must escape planetary imprisonment to live in a can floating in literal anti-life nothingness
unironically though, people talk about "the rich are planning to escape to another planet" but like, even if climate change isn't stopped at all it will take centuries before earth becomes as bad as fkn mars
not mars but I'm far from convinced that we won't see venus
In Gundam the poor actually move off earth to the space colonies and space stations while the bourgeois and the government remain. Funny, we're going to have an inverse of the universal century.
Material conditions will likely force exactly this to happen sooner or later.
Living in metal cans in space is just not ever going to be as nice as living on a planet. As soon as the bourgeois realize this, they'll be looking to ship the regulars off planet.
We'll be in for a ride wild if space working robots with pilots inside start getting developed along with it. I like the UC but I wouldn't want to live through a space/global interplanetary war.
Let's just build the Devil Gundam already.
I'm ready for my robot nanobot overlords.
Also, in Warhammer 40k, Earth (known as Terra in the setting), Earth is basically the Vatican, the capital of both the Imperium and their religion, as well as a place only the most powerful of the most powerful of the most powerful live.
...It's also kind of a shithole with no water and vegetation, as well as mostly uninhabitable, since we gotta keep it as grimdark as possible.
This has come up twice in the past month, on the first date with two different people, and I wasn't even the one to bring it up. Due to my desire to please and perhaps my desire for other things as well, I just swallowed my values and said, "Yeah."
this fucking dork was definitely the one who brought it up
If we assume this reddit dork is telling the truth, why doesn't he just speak up and offer even just a little pushback if he believes in this so much. Does he really respect himself that little? Or maybe it's not that strong a "value", because it has zero effect on his day to day life. Someone teach these people basic self respect and decency please god.
perhaps my desire for other things as well,
Ok then, lol. No chance a person like this is going to get the chance to engage in those "other things". People can sense the desperation and lack of basic self value from miles away.
ive noticed libertarian types on reddit always wank on about "my values" and posture like they would go to the barricades for them (as we see here, they clearly wouldnt of course) and its always some banal shit like the most important moral question of their existence is the freedom to use bitcoin to buy skyrim dlc or some shit
like fine youve bought into some dipshit pedo ideology, but its never even something ostensibly highminded like "using the power of free markets to bring world harmony" or anything, like have some fucking imagination at least
Yeah pretty much. They're usually bored comfortable failsons, with not much important to do, so they come up with these absurd "values" that amount to fuck all at the end of the day.
If we assume this reddit dork is telling the truth, why doesn’t he just speak up and offer even just a little pushback if he believes in this so much.
Can't get that sloppy if he's acting like a dweeb
"So, what kind of stuff are you into?"
"I dunno I kinda like Elon Musk?"
These morons don't realize that SpaceX critics aren't "anti-space", they're against privatization of space.
Srsly, I’m a huge space nerd. But deffo not when it comes to spacex
If the planet they were going to were an Earth analog I would understand this argument. Although capitalism would do exactly the same to it that it did to Earth.
It's like building an extra lane on a highway. It's not addressing the underlying issues that make private transportation unsustainable.
Alternative interpretation: Capitalists want to colonise other planets because they fear the inevitability of revolution on earth. They see expansion via space as new land to invest in and capitalism would have to play out across entire planets again in order to lead up to revolution.
If capitalists spread capitalism to new planets they guarantee a few hundred years of capitalism can play out on those.
I agree with that, the capitalist system has always relied on the existence of a frontier, and cheap labor/raw materials for exploitation.
This is my favorite comment...
Since the goal of a date is to explore mutual compatibility (aka “get laid”), it’s best to take approaches that leave room for maneuvering.
Most people don’t really follow space, think of it as some expensive boondoggle paid for with tax dollars, and don’t see the point. So a little inquiry is in order. What do they think we should be doing instead?
If it’s “climate is going to destroy us all”, point out that multi planetary is not a bad fail safe, but in the meantime, cheap orbital launch can put up more sensors to understand climate effect better, and telescopes that find evidence of other planets becoming wastelands through runaway greenhouse effect.
If it’s “starving children”, point out that investment in space may lead to cheap beamed power, harvesting of asteroids, and internet worldwide for the “bottom of the pyramid” so that all the worlds poor can learn, ask for help, and contribute. All of this helps alleviate poverty.
If it’s just general “waste of time”, point out that the phone they’ve been checking under the table, the satellite connection beaming their sports to said phone, and the GPS directing them to their after-hours bar they are ditching you for all came from the space program.
If it’s “billionaires argh”, would you rather it be their money or your tax dollars?
If it’s “everyone should have a chance to go!” then your date is in fact a socialist and probably not worth the time as they’ll be eaten for food in the end days of Earth.
That should get you to dessert at least.
Don’t forget to make good sexy rocket talk. This post will help.
If it’s “everyone should have a chance to go!” then your date is in fact a socialist and probably not worth the time as they’ll be eaten for food in the end days of Earth.
STEM is just the nerdy wing of fascism. I guess.
Dr. StrangeBro's right arm rolls his wheelchair backwards. He struggles with wayward right arm, ultimately subduing it by beating it with his left hand.
Dr. StrangeBro: "When we go to Mars everyone would still be alive. There would be no shocking memories, and the prevailing emotion will be one of nostalgia for those left behind, combined with a spirit of bold curiosity for the adventure ahead! Ahhhh!" His right are reflexes into Nazi salute. He pulls it back into his lap and beats it again. His gloved hand attempts to strangle him.
General Turgidson: "Doctor, you mentioned the ration of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?"
Dr. StrangeBro: "Regrettably, yes. But it is, you know, a sacrifice required for the future of the human race. I hasten to add that since each man will be required to do prodigious... service along these lines, the women will have to be selected for their sexual characteristics which will have to be of a highly stimulating nature."
It is by design too in the US, if even academia catches wind of you being remotely left and if you're even in a soft STEM (god help you if you made this error in a hard stem, your days on earth are limited) and remotely left you get your ass blacklisted at a minimum. Also, operation Paperclip, enough said.
Since the goal of a date is to explore mutual compatibility (aka “get laid”), it’s best to take approaches that leave room for maneuvering.
Classic self-aware internet dork move. Let's use some kind of formal academic name (that's not even academic it just sounds formal) for a date but then put it in wry layman terms. You know he's smart but also not uptight and is "down with the vibes" of socializing.
Most people don’t really follow space, think of it as some expensive boondoggle paid for with tax dollars, and don’t see the point. So a little inquiry is in order. What do they think we should be doing instead?
Actually they do. There's a whole cottage industry of pop-sci horseshit that just spews utopian science blog posts under a link to a scientific journal self-published on some online journal host. They talk about space all the time and millions of people follow it like a religion. This has been going on for at least a decade. It's not new, it's not unique. It's not a substitute for a personality. You're not the smart guy in the room because you read another graphine tubes article.
It is paid for with tax dollars. It's also always been about giving tax dollars to private companies. NASA didn't make shit, they contracted Boeing or Lockheed or some other private company to make their hardware. The space agency has never had a nationalized supply chain or manufacturing center. The difference is that NASA got to keep the stuff they designed. Now it's the worst of both worlds. A private company is paid and they keep the IP. If they have some amazing new discovery, they keep it. It gets locked away in some R&D bunker until the marketing guys can come up with a proper sales/profit model for it. If anyone tries to take it by force, it gets destroyed in the seizure. Believe it or not, the goal of a company like SpaceX is not to actually share knowledge with everyone. It's to make money sending things into space. Even that is a dubious idea if you do a little inquiry. It really seems like a way to just keep bilking government contracts while doing a worse job than NASA.
If it’s “climate is going to destroy us all”, point out that multi planetary is not a bad fail safe, but in the meantime, cheap orbital launch can put up more sensors to understand climate effect better, and telescopes that find evidence of other planets becoming wastelands through runaway greenhouse effect.
It's a terrible fail safe. Climate change can kill millions before we even get to have 10 people who permanently live on another planet. Let alone enough people to actually keep the species going. Not to mention Mars sucks to live on. You will always be fighting against a planet that doesn't want you there. Your resources will go to just staying alive. Even if build an army of robot workers so the humans can just live underground (to avoid the constant deadly radiation without having to haul thick metal habitats into space) then you couldn't get it all off the ground. You'd have to ship so slowly to meet mass requirements. Technology isn't magic. Some person on reddit gets a job coding or in IT and they think they're engineers.
We can already put climate satellites into space with what we had. SpaceX didn't invent that. They're not even doing it faster than NASA. That's not what telescopes do or how they work. Jesus fuck how does this person get through the day? Redditors love talking about Dunning-Kruger but the site is made for that kind of person. Of course at the end they link to another post on reddit as proof they're right. Just reading posts and thinking it bestows some kind of expertise. He thinks we're going to look through a telescope and have a little video of another planet going through climate change that will tell us something new. We can't even get visible light images of the closest extra-solar planets. Your aperture would have to be absurdly large and even then the angular size of the planets would still be too small.
If it’s “starving children”, point out that investment in space may lead to cheap beamed power, harvesting of asteroids, and internet worldwide for the “bottom of the pyramid” so that all the worlds poor can learn, ask for help, and contribute. All of this helps alleviate poverty.
Even if you're not a communist, how would this make any sense? Okay you're a capitalist. Why do businesses exist? To make money. If you believe businesses exist to make the world a better place you're just as naive from an actual capitalist view as you are from a communist view. By virtue of being a business it has to make money for investors and it has to make enough money to pay for expenses. A private company also gets to keep what it invents. So cheap beamed power would only be given to the world once it had a business model to sell it. It wouldn't be given to starving children for free. It also wouldn't help food production. Children aren't starving because there's not enough power.
Harvesting asteroids also doesn't make sense. If SpaceX gets a big chunk of gold asteroid, why would they give it to starving children? What's the business move there? PR? Clearly they don't need it because internet nerds will make up all sorts of hypothetical scenarios where starving African children get free time travel devices from Elon Musk. What good is internet to starving people? You think they need to look up recipes or how to grow food? Come on. The source of poverty is not a lack of technology.
If it’s just general “waste of time”, point out that the phone they’ve been checking under the table, the satellite connection beaming their sports to said phone, and the GPS directing them to their after-hours bar they are ditching you for all came from the space program.
??? "You have an iphone right? Then why don't you drink Elon Musk's cum? Checkmate." Also the disdain for someone watching sports and going to a bar. Sure isn't seething with social jealousy here, no sir. Only brutish thug animals who "have big penises" and "have lots of sex" hate my precious science. If only they could cast away their wordly vices and become a true polymath intellectual like myself.
If it’s “billionaires argh”, would you rather it be their money or your tax dollars?
It still is your tax money dipshit. No billionaire is going to risk all their wealth on this shit. They know how far off profitability would be for SpaceX or Virgin.
If it’s “everyone should have a chance to go!” then your date is in fact a socialist and probably not worth the time as they’ll be eaten for food in the end days of Earth.
You think you're going to go to Mars? You think you're worthy because you make Java games for some bottom tier app company? You think Elon has your name on a list and will save you? You don't even know how telescopes work you dolt.
I know it's silly to waste time on redditors but this shit is so easy to torpedo it's not even funny. They're all so fucking sure they know everything and have all the answers, if only society would upvote their posts.
It would be great if you replied to him with an edited version of that comment. His "Well, actually..." rebuttals might be totally hilarious.
I'd bet money he intimates (or flat-out says) something like he does "high-level R&D work" for a "very important top-tier tech company".
My money is on
"Do you have any sources for your claims?"
Which is of course an inquiry being made completely in good faith
Classic self-aware internet dork move. Let’s use some kind of formal academic name (that’s not even academic it just sounds formal) for a date but then put it in wry layman terms. You know he’s smart but also not uptight and is “down with the vibes” of socializing.
redditors in a nutshell
If it’s just general “waste of time”, point out that the phone they’ve been checking under the table, the satellite connection beaming their sports to said phone, and the GPS directing them to their after-hours bar they are ditching you for all came from the space program.
Holy self esteem issues lmao
Amazing how that one sentence gave me a glimpse into their life that I really didn't need.
:brainworms:
Lol they think the billionaires aren't using tax dollars?
That we don't have the solutions for climate change, poverty, and world hunger already? All of those things are issues of political will and this dork thinks that a couple billionaires going through midlife crises are the best solution?
Getting your talking points in order before going on a date, extremely normal behavior.
investment in space may lead to cheap beamed power
lol what :brainworms:
Google "Dyson sphere", then smash your brain with a frying pan until you think energy shortages are caused by a permanent crisis of under production. It makes sense
The red scare has lasted for a century at this point. Is society (forgive the term) going to continue this demonization until the methane clouds ignite and kill us all?
The people with no knowledge of history should definitely be the ones in charge of plotting our future in the stars.
white people don't understand the fundamentals of reality, like energy, soil, food, resources, etc.
Unfortunately it isn't just white people, though they do seem to have the most advanced brain worms.
Someone already did: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/p48fj9/what_are_your_thoughts_on_the_antispacex/h8wwnm7/
But they did it as an example of how people get worked up over non-issues. The person saying it was a good song was downvoted: https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/p48fj9/what_are_your_thoughts_on_the_antispacex/h8x7ws2/
(BTW since that song was published in 1970, virtually every measure of living standards in the US increased because of technology)
Line go up because rocket go up
hmmm i wonder what the demographics of reddit dot com slash r slash spacexlounge could possibly be
Hate is stronger than reason for the masses, unfortunately.
i wonder which masses they could be referring to
Oh, and welfare programs are already 50 times the NASA budget
which masses could they possibly mean
There’s nothing out there.
I wouldn't go that far. Space is fucking beautiful, and I'd love to be able to stand on the surface of Europa or Triton. I realize that's not realistic, though, certainly not in my lifetime. And even if anyone can get us there, it sure as hell wouldn't be :melon-musk:
Counterpoint: Europa belongs to the indigenous Europan species and humans would be an invasive species with unknowable negative effects on its biodiversity.
This point was made by the 2010: Odyssey Two gang.
I don see anything wrong with colonizing other planets. I see something wrong with investing millions upon millions into a sci-fi pipe dream.
Mars is an inhospitable hellscape and it’s really, really, really, really far away. Nothing can live on it without ridiculous artificial effort, and the logistics are inconceivably awful. We would need to fly a massive amount of technology, supply and resources incredibly far away and for what, really? More space? What is there on Mars that’s worth the immense effort that would require it?
In the far future, if civilization hasn’t collapsed and we perhaps discover tools to somehow terraform Mars, then it would make sense and be amazing.
But at this point it’s an absolute waste of money and resources. No human has even set foot on the damn thing yet. There’s not even like a precedent of a „moon base“ or anything, and the moon is basically right next door comparatively speaking.
Nobody will live on Mars in our lifetimes. Not even scientists. It’s hostile to life and really fucking far away.
Isn't that only a problem on geologic timescales? Like you slam enough comets into it* and seed with some GMO extremophiles** and it'll be fine for as long as you could possibly want it.
* With magic, presumably, since there's no way of getting the sorts of dV that requires with any modern tech.
** Which don't exist but would probably be the easier of those two things since "make this weird bacteria like to eat rust and bleach and produce oxygen and water as waste products" is at least feasibly conceivable, unlike "get a large engine and fuel assembly into a weird orbit to intercept and attach to a comet and somehow shift millions of tons that are already moving very fast into a collision course with a planet" which is not.
There’s really nothing in space worth having.
Well, there's H3 on the moon and tons of useful metals in asteroids. If we could figure out an automated way to mine these, it would eliminate the need for the ecologically damaging and exploitative extraction of resources from here on Earth.
Like Musk is a piece of shit, and his worshippers only like him because they think he's some kind of techno-messiah who will solve all their problems with ScIEnCE! But let's not write off space exploration in its entirety as useless.
Well, there’s H3 on the moon
Y'know, I don't really trust our civilization to responsibly extract anything from anywhere, and tides seem kind of important
