Permanently Deleted
I don't get the point of the vote switch (the vote was literally 420-9, one more no or yes wouldn't have made a difference), and I imagine pro-Israel voters and special interests already hate her regardless of this vote (she literally called Israel an apartheid state).
Whatever, I don't care. I judge actions by their material consequences, and there's no material difference here.
I'm more disappointed in Jamaal Bowman, who calls himself a socialist and voted yes. Even a couple Warren Democrats voted no on this.
My conclusion from this is that the Zionist lobby is very strong in NYC.
Like the other user said, it doesn't change the outcome. Mitigating the effectiveness of the messaging you're describing doesn't have much of a cost.
I don't believe in electoralism in any way, but people who do seem to think that stuff matters, so that's the premise on which I'll argue.
To be fair, switching from no to abstain to try and please Zionist voters is... also optics.
I heard his district is full of Jewish folk, I don't think he could vote no without losing his seat; not that it would have mattered either way.
-7DeadlyFetishes
I have literally no idea what's going on anymore other than that Dem leadership are doing everything they can to ensure Israel gets to kill Palestinians.
:josus-stalin: I swear it's not on purpose, but at this rate I'm never gonna stop posting about social fascist theory. :josus-stalin:
:10000-com: I've been saying this for a while. Her shtick is mostly performative nonsense with either no material outcomes or negative ones.
Yeah I deleted my dunk tank style rant because it feels sectarian to argue against electoralism in /c/electoralism
You have more restraint than I do :maduro-salute:
I mean, electoralism is a tactic not an ideology. I say go off king
Not to defend her, but she doesn’t operate autonomously.
electoralism dot png
I know this is the electoralism comm, but it's also a great example of the issue with it.
meh, socdems have proven thousands of times in hundreds of countries that they are perfectly able to suck, be useless and disappoint you without them doing so because "they were threatened to get their family killed"
Yeah that's why you have to take an uncompromising position on funding apartheid and genocide and go down with your own ship if electoralism removes you from power.
There is no point to people like AOC except sheepdogging otherwise.
People like her serves a purpose to the Democrats. Keep any leftist invested in electoralism so that they can keep on getting their votes.
Presumably she was pressured to go from no to present in the "money to genocide palestinians" bill and feels bad about it
Oh no! Anyway...
Was doing some work and talking the other day with a palestinian refugee family that was forced to "relocate" from the "government housing" near me. No reason to make you feel angry. You all know how it goes and can imagine the pain, loss and misery in their hearts...So excuse me if i find it very hard to care about an american socdem feeling "sad" that she couldnt take the "political risk" to vote no and have a moral position on the "money to genocide the palestinians" bill. Its not worth it to even begin thinking if they were crocodile tears or not
Yeah this is incredibly salient. Frankly if "oh she doesn't really have a choice" and things are so stacked against her, then why should we give a flying fuck about AOC or consider her part in the system as anything by another aid to genocide and apartheid.
I am fucking sick of how the feelings of a politician with massive public support over whether or not she can even perform performative shit about genocide once. I don't care if AOC is on our side in her heart of hearts, I care about the fact that we are still pretending someone is a socialist and can head some "movement" or anything when they cannot even perform opposition to genocide. My side is the Palestinians, not whichever Americans with power are willing to consider milquetoast bullshit. Tears dont stop missiles or prevent tanks from smashing homes down.
Have more empathy for the Palestinian than for the lib who says they feel bad that they had to vote "present" on an apartheid state. You get a choice, everyone gets a choice; and if an elected official cannot stand up then call them what they are. The position of a feckless liberal means nothing and if she cannot accomplish anything even performatively, then why does it fucking matter if she "plays the game"?
The aoc cycle
aoc finally does something unquestionably unprincipled and shitty and everyone dunks on it
time passes and a bunch of people memory hole it
small “idk why people are shitty about aoc she’s not that bad “ struggle session soon after
repeat
Sorry, the heart wants what it wants. I'm just a simple country dicksucker; when I hear someone call for blood and appear to be putting up a fight against my enemies, I say, "yay." When I see the same person do limp-dick democrat shit, I say, "boo." Probably none of this election stuff really matters anyway, so I'd rather the spectacle be spectacular instead of disappointing
love too "both sides" about Cuba like a spineless piece of shit :AyyyyyOC-big:
Put yourself in AOC's position, she can either preach some esoteric communist dribble about how Cuba is preserving the revolution and resisting US imperialism and have all of US media give her flak over it hurting her position because, after all, most of America is convinced she's a socialist, or she can not do that and face a single day of critism from the left that no one will ever see. She's operating in a capitalist system that seeks to get her out, she's going to care more about self preservation moreso than some "principled" position that once again, only a small faction of leftists is going to care about.
-7DeadlyFetishes
Almost like people should stop expecting shit out of succdem electoralism, right? But she's also bad on her own merits - see meeting with the Bolivian fascists after the coup.
pisspig tankies
lmao at the accidental implication that anarchists love AOC
I wouldn't be dying on this hill if leftist's wouldn't shit their pants and stomp their feet everytime AOC does a cringe.
-7DeadlyFetishes
Those 10 allies basically make up the margin of Democrats' majority. They could at least use that to bring about some change, but nah.
Not that this applies to this issue because I'm sure Republicans all voted yes.
Social democrat entryists operating within the capitalist electoral system (within the second most capitalist/anti-socialist party of all time no less) cannot bring about change no matter their number in congress or the number of allies (which they will never achieve anyway). I dont know why you phrase it like that . A hundred AOCs operating freely and "standing up for themselves" wouldnt solve a bit of the capitalist rot within the systrem. 9/10 times there wont be an attempt to. So the whole "she is alone and pressured" deffense doesnt really matter and they should be dunked as any other politician that called themselves a leftist and pulled this shit
There'd be no AOC if she ran around NY doing the same shtick as SA or PSL or CPUSA, she won because she's a social democrat. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Also, the only people who think that soccdems in congress are capable of change are already committed soccdem supporters, literally not a single soul thinks that AOC or anyone else is going to radically change the system, your putting words in my mouth.
-7DeadlyFetishes
Bro she isn't going to free the palastinians
-7DeadlyFetishes
I mean I largely agree with your assessment and I think 70 or 80 percent of the AOC criticism on here is sectarian ultraleft crap but switching from "no" to "present" still makes no fucking sense. Like...if they threatened her why not push her all the way to yes, right?
Legit this is the one thing I have absolutely no idea what happened. Why pressure one representative on a vote where other people voted no that passed 420-9? And only pressure them from "no" to "present" instead of "yes"? Like, what...? It doesn't make sense from anyone's perspective. Is she that cowardly?
And yet those others voted "NO", we are not demanding she be a revolution, be charitable or at least not blind about what we are complaining about. Those other 10 people for various reasons put their foot down at least, they showed you can in fact do that. So this
:very-intelligent: :maybe-later-kiddo: shit doesn't work when other people at least did the right thing. You've been refuted by the rest of the squad
Yeah, redistricting. Her potential new district would include Riverdale. Which has a rather large Jewish population.
https://twitter.com/ChestyPullerGst/status/1441110074210934794?s=19
Don't know how true this is but the OP is citing one chud so here's another.
How much of a coward can you be? Voting no wouldn't have changed the result anyway.
performative piece of liberal trash
edit: Imagine believing you can reform your way into socialism under a system that you are so afraid of that you can't even "vote your conscience" on something that was 420-9. Absolutely pathetic. Fuck DemSocs
I bet they threatened to Yitzhak Rabin her family lol
He's right. Spineless is a way better word anyway. It's easy to do better.
