When late stage Ridley Scott is saying you suck
It's funny how every auteur film marketing campaign is 50% just the director shitting on the MCU now
For good reason, Capeshit legitimately needs to stop being a thing for a while. Big budget movies weren’t exactly art before but the Marvel paradigm has infected everything. Star Wars, Star Trek, DC, all the way to Rick and Morty style cartoons, it’s all gotten so bad and it’s all that’s on screen at the moment.
What’s next, Mad Max is going to have spinoffs about Immortan Joe being a teenage misfit that once saved the world from destruction?
He's right but people forget the immediate precursor to the MCU was 8 Saw movies, 4 Scary Movies, I forget what number Freddy and Jason got to, along with 3 AVP films, 5 die hards, etc.
Like a lot of people were trying really, really, hard to do exactly what Marvel is doing and just couldn't optimize it. It wasn't the MCU ruining hollywood, it was hollywood getting what it wanted.
Yeah but those were, like, 25% of big budget films. Now Marvel and capeshit is at least 75%.
Most shit that would be a mid budget movie is now a short TV series.
The number of movies coming to theaters every week that have a good sized budget is way down. Most people simply didn’t find spending $20 to a night at the movies with essentially risky purchases was worth it. Capeshit movies generally aren’t bad - they are mediocre and people generally know what they are getting so it’s a “good investment “.
That’s what Marvel is - a guarantee of an ok movie of a type.
Because Marvel is actually designed for that specific thing, they just had to switch the medium from a gazillion different comic book series to a gazillion different movie series. Endless expandability is built into capeshit in a way you don't have with other mediums. Look how they try to squeeze as much from the orginal trilogy as possible into each new Star Wars movie so it remains recognizable, which leads to the franchise being stretched thinner with every iteration. You don't have that problem with Marvel, you can easily make a Thor or Hulk movie where none of the other Avengers show up, you can also cross them over with other stuff any way you want, it's how this stuff is supposed to work. If there weren't IP issues with Spiderman and the X-Men, they could probably milk that franchise for another decade or so.
making the same movie 5 times a year for the large adult sons to soyface over. I do not respect capeshit fans
you’ve got: person who wants to argue that all sci fi and fantasy are basically capeshit without capes
Asimov's Foundation series is about a guy that uses supercomputers, AI, and historical materialism to predict the future and create an organization with a plan to guide humanity through the collapse of empire ensuring something better came from its ashes. It's a not so subtle plea for people to embrace socialism because even in the 40s Asimov and other communists knew how things would play out if the US or another capitalist/imperialist power came out on top in the brewing conflict. I love scifi and fantasy both but I feel like there's a lot more comrades writing scifi and more fascists in the fantasy genre though there are obvious exceptions to both.
you’ve got: the deconstructionists who love watchmen and the boys
Oh yeah and watchmen and the boys are cool.
I like deconstructing capeshit and scifi and still love both.
You forgot me:
Superhero movies are bland propaganda that ranges from raging dumpster fire to dangerously mediocre in terms of writing but I like shutting my brain off to watch the pretty colors to forget about having to get up for work tomorrow.
Add one more person to the list, because you're missing me.
The number one reason I absolutely despise disney capeshit is because it's the most blatantly soulless product of capitalism.
So like 15 years ago when they were just starting out, they had to try and make good product because they didn't have an established brand yet, so they used to hire big names. But the problem with big names is that they have a lot of experience, and they want to make what they like. Edward Norton had so much input he's listed as a screenplay polisher (uncredited) on IMDb. Why work hard with people who have their opinions when you can just fire them and replace them with someone else? So they let him go and replaced him with some guy no one ever heard of. But maybe it's just one guy, who cares, right?
Then Avengers 2 happened and the studio execs only ever cared about setting up as many movies for their phase 3. Avengers 2 is like 30% trailers for the upcoming movies, absolute crap. Obviously, the big name director (Joss Whedon) wasn't happy about it and quit and got replaced with some guys who were famous for making the paintball episodes on the Community. Then they hired Edgar Wright to direct Ant-Man and told him to put a stupid pointless fight scene with Falcon in the middle of the movie just so they can set up Civil War. He didn't like that and quit.
From all that experience disney execs learned to never ever hire any big names who have their own fanbase/vision and can stand up for themselves. Instead, every capeshit director is a nobody who has only made two or three small movies before. Basically, the writing and directing is now automated, there's no personality to any of those movies, they all follow the same formula.
i too have become incredibly cynical about marvel movies. I think I was able to like the Guardians movies because if you squint you can ignore the rest of the marvel universe for a brief moment and they didnt feel like they were churned out of a factory
Well they also lucked out with a good director. A good director/writer is what makes or breaks a movie, everything else is superficial and doesn't matter.
They also got lucky with Thor 3 because they got Taika Waititi.
Disney can still make a good movie occasionally. But that only happens when they find a diamond in the rough that has a talent to make good movies AND the execs give them enough rope to hang themselves. Sometimes people make GotG/Thor 3, and sometimes they make The Last Jedi.
true and i did like thor 3 for similar reasons. outside of those I can't think of any marvel movies i actively liked except maybe black panther just cause my friends were enjoying it so much when we watched it. the CIA shit was so lame though
All movies where the villain has better politics than the main character are trash tier in my opinion, and the fact that they've turned Killmonger into CIA and then into a literal Hitler absolutely cemented Black Panther as one of the worst movies they've ever made.
Also, I dislike Black Panther because it's Thor. Not good Thor, it's not Thor 3. And not bad Thor either, it's not Thor 2. Just Thor, the first one. The main characters are aliens or basically aliens despite living on Earth/being based on Earth mythology. Technology is advanced enough to be indistinguishable from magic. Inheritance is the central theme of the movie, and the main character has a half brother. The main character is a boring cardboard cutout with no emotions and everyone loves the movie for the charismatic villain.
Maybe I would've liked Black Panther if they didn't make the villain into CIA and if they let him alive so he can redeem himself like Loki. But of course we can't have a revolutionary black guy mad at whities in the MCU, especially as a hero, so of course he had to die.
I so, so, so wish they would've killed Chadwick's character so the Killmonger would take his place as the king and Black Panther to do all those radical reforms, that would've been so fucking cool... That's the number one reason I hate that movie more than any other movie in the MCU, wasted potential.
Or imagine if during their "these americans are actually Vacandian spies" montage we got to see Obama, who, in the MCU, actually **was ** orn in Africa and actually is a spy! I know Obungler would've never done that cameo, but I just can't stop myself from imagining all the chuds' heads exploding from rage. Just imagine Alex Jones' reaction for a second... That would've made the movie a 10/10, the best movie ever made. Another missed opportunity.
I know both of these are unrealistic, but I can't control how I feel.
I love how the reddit thread has a bunch of capeshit nerds crying about this. "wHaT AbOuT Prometheus? "
I'll take Prometheus over the 135th version of Batboy 135 times.
Is it about the movies being good or not? If you say you prefer Prometheus over capeshit then you're okay with bad movies. If capeshit is bad because they're bad movies, then you haven't changed your position on bad movies. Which means the gripe with capeshit is more than film appreciation. It's more to do with you railing against consumerism or corporate products than talking about what makes a good movie. But at the same time, you're fine with corporate products because you're choosing Prometheus, a cash grab reboot on a beloved 40 year old series. So is it really consumerism or is it something else. I venture to guess that it's about others seeing you rail against capeshit. It's about the image of a discerning consumer, not just a mindless consumer. This stems from dissonance of having anti-corporate and consumerist views while having no choice but to be a consumer. The resolution to the dissonance is to then retreat back into a inconsistent appreciation of aesthetics where it's okay to watch a bad movie, as long as it's interesting. Which is what anti-capeshit people tell themselves about liking bad movies that aren't capeshit. Sure they're horrible, but they're interesting. However, they are not.
Of course the fact that there are a solid demographic of anti-capeshitters and pro-capeshitters locked in some kind of weird brand war of genreshit, further shows the influence of the commodification of art and how we all have consumer-poisioned brains.
Sorry if this seems like a weird attack or overly serious response to a casual post. I'm just using you as a jumping off point for my opinions on the capeshit wars. It's more of me replying to everyone I've ever argued with about it online than specifically you. Mainly it stems from my grudge against Chapos for having bad opinions on movies such as "I'd take Zack Snyder over Marvel because he's interesting." Which is like saying I'll take dogshit over horseshit because it's interesting. How interesting can eating shit be that one experience is some how more appreciable than the other? IDK
Which means the gripe with capeshit is more than film appreciation. It’s more to do with you railing against consumerism or corporate products than talking about what makes a good movie.
No, my gripe is with rehashed characters and end of the world plotlines vs a relatively ambitious film that at least tries to tell a new story.
Capeshit is capeshit because it’s the same shit over and over and over again.
And Prometheus was a very decent film with great cinematography. Ok, maybe some characters were stupid, maybe it relied too much on suspension of disbelief but Scott at least gave it a shot. It’s all corporatized shlock but we live in a material reality in which we’re compelled to participate in and Prometheus at least stimulates the imagination. I enjoyed the the first few capeshit movies but there’s been literally 100s of them with literally the same characters and storylines. That’s indefensible.
But Prometheus didn't try to tell a new story. It was the same plot as every other alien movie. People discover aliens and then it hunts them 1 by 1 until there's a final showdown. It threw in the stuff about Engineers to give a backstory for a prop from Alien. It's the same instinct to prequalize that we seen throughout capeshit and the industry as a whole. Because Hollywood is designed to churn out the same shit over and over again. Capeshit is not a unique blight causing this. Even Ridley and/or the studio put out promotional material/easter eggs trying to connect Blade Runner to Prometheus (and therefore Alien. There is your extended universe idea. You can see pieces of the MCU, both running concurrently with it and preceding it. Disney just happened to consolidate all those corporate instincts into one franchise and commit to it.
I think Ridley's sentiment is just a coping mechanism. Directors used to be part of the talent pool. You saw a Spielberg movie because he was a brand and you could rely on that brand to produce good content (if he was your thing). Disney figured out that directors don't matter as much. They could pick these indie and inexperienced directors but put them with a good producer and make more money. Feige is the talent of the MCU, not the directors. That's going to become the norm for these kinds of movies. Since Ridley made his brand on these kinds of movies, it makes sense that he doesn't like it. It's just that his opinion rings hollow because it's just sour grapes.
interesting take. but i think that most marvel movies aren't told masterfully either. there's a certain cinematic formula they follow for most of them that goes beyond just writing - it's the lighting, colour palette, etc. they're technically competent movies with mostly great special effects, but i don't think you can call them 'craftsmanship' if they don't do anything very cool visually. there's more to even just the visual aspects of a movie (not to mention how they affect one's perception of the story) than their just looking good.
also, we thankfully don't personally remember every story ever told, and until our memory somehow becomes that good, there's loads of ways to tell previously told stories that make us think they're awesome.
prometheus was so much worse imo and ridley scott is typically full of himself for making a handful of good movies decades ago
but i prefer capeshit that knows its capeshit. deadpool, thor ragnarok, and venom seem to understand that they are capeshit and nothing else
It was so much worse than what, Avengers Endgame? Thor2,3? Spiderman 7?
Nah, Prometheus is good compared to a lot of high budget shit.
those movies dont understand they are capeshit and therefore are bad because they try to send a message
I still don't think that superheroes film are inherently bad (yes, I'm aware of their problematic components), but I do think they are unequivocally making film worse . I am admittedly I am an avid comicbook reader, but none of the superhero films seem to bringing their own creative vision to the script, to the direction, to the visual design, to the soundtrack, and everything beyond. They are so cookie-cutter, and I hate that the studios love it.
There are tons of great stories from the "mainstream" publishers and even more (and better ones) in the independent ones. My problem with the movies is that most of these films seem to remove every uniquely creatively element from the comic they make movies about. They seem to smooth them all out to make them seem flat and interchangeable. It's bad for movies, it's bad for comics, and bad for audiences. We all lose.
It's such a bummer that some of these comics have 50+ years of history and stories to draw from, but the studios make things that are so creatively bankrupt. I'm not saying everything must be some super deep deconstruction of the genre, but you'd think these films would not be so overwhelmingly CTRL+C/CTRL+V of each other. They are all so creatively vapid, and they are soaked in this Hollywood/MEGACORP idea that "movies as marketing platforms". They aren't even really movies anymore they just a part of the "experience" of the MCU/DCU. It fuckin' sucks that the cultural richness of superheroes (and comicbook adaptions to a larger extent) is just utterly watered down. There are so many great graphic novels that would make dope movies, but because they are not superheroes, they aren't going to get made.
To me, superheroes films being boring is a sign that the way films are made is the problem rather than the films themselves. The films themselves are usually anywhere from a "weak watchable" to a "strong decent" (I'm saying this as dude who been reading this shit since I was 12), but I think they could be zillion times better if creatives were in charge of the production of the film rather the stockholders of the production company. The big blockbuster film has historically been great for studios, but negatively impacts the film-going landscape.
I feel super bad for filmmakers right now, both the big dogs and the people coming up in the industry (really any creative industry). Your creative vision has to fit into their 12-year marketing plan, or your shit isn't going to get made. You make their by-the-numbers film/TV or you aint making anything and don't try anything that hasn't been audience/market researched. Which is why the people who make the movies should be in charge of the movies getting made.
Join a union y'all.
I felt this way watching Dr. Strange. I was pumped for tons of trippy other dimensions and magical whatnot, but there were only a few short sequences and then the usual MCU stuff. Boring! Sad!
The sequence towards the beginning where he tumbles through acidland and the ending time-resetting sequence vs Dormamu were the coolest parts of the movie by far. Just give me crazy trippy visuals and multiverse traveling, I don't need another tragic backstory with cookie cutter heroes journey origin story bullshit.
i agree with you on pretty much all of this, but even ideally, with creative movies that draw from the most interesting and varied comics stories, i don't know if superhero movies would take up such a huge portion of the industry. it really is ridiculous how they seem to be the only thing so many people talk about (wrt film, of course).
My hypothesis is that the Hollywood studio system would be significantly better if all the executives making these decisions switched back to snorting cocaine instead of bloodless, Silicon Valley, micro-dosing of psychedelics to make them more productive.
All i need is a faithful adaption of old man logan, thats it.
I don't like super hero movies but the last alien movie was god awful, don't throw stones in that glass house Ridley.
Last alien was god awful but at least it tried.
Edit: Well, ok, it was straight up garbage.
I'm still pissed off they killed Neill Blomkamp's project for that crap.
I wanted to like the new Alien films so much. They have some glimmers of greatness but they just are not as good they should be.
If Covenant was xenomorphs with zippy dialogue in which they planned the destruction of planet earth and the only ones who could stop them were the ship wrecked protagonists replete with Krav maga expertise and jetpacks, the movie would have had at least 75% fresh tomatoes and the nodding approval of capeshitters.
"Disney is not happy with me--that's okay, I'll still keep watching that garbage"
Stop asking old man directors their opinions on capeshit challenge.
You know a struggle sesh is good when you have to scroll down five times to read one sentence
I haven't watched a superhero movie since one of the early Batman movies
Also @hollywood please stop making superhero movies now. You can make spiderman and maybe doctor strange but thats enough
