Anytime anything popular gets dragged here there’s always a few “let people enjoy things” and “don’t ruin peoples fun” and “don’t be a weird cynical hipster” and what have you.
Except for the most popular series of children books in history. For whatever reason that’s apparently weapons free for Hater Team 6 to go to town on. I’ve seen people say was shouldn’t ruin peoples “favorite toy” when it comes to sports, Twilight, Marvel Movies and astrology, but what makes those sacrosanct and Harry Potter fair game?
This applies somewhat to Hamilton too.
Because people don't enjoy harry potter. People identify with it. It is taken to the core of who they are because we fundamentally lack any systemic moral or ethical education in the west. Harry potter is as close to a philosophy as most libs have and it fucking sucks. Quidditch players simply enjoy harry potter and that fine. We don't shit on them.
Quidditch players simply enjoy harry potter and that fine. We don’t shit on them.
The American quidditch leagues are rebranding to remove any association with Harry Potter because most of them also hate Rowling now.
Would like to echo that there's a difference between "enjoying" something and "identifying with" something.
I liked the Harry Potter series when I was younger, like it a bit less after some things that were pointed out and the ideas that JK not only expresses but openly advocating for.
I absolutely loved Ender's Game when I was growing up but the author is absolutely trash. I keep meaning to find a copy to reread as a middle aged adult instead of a tween/teenager.
Hamilton is actually dangerous. Smarter people than me have pointed out that its revisionist as fuck and people are actively thinking they are learning history from consuming the slop from that trough.
I'm not enough of a history aficionado to be able to copy/pasta bullet points. Sorry.
But from some of the history themed podcasts I've listened to over the years that talked about the musical, their opinion was that it was ahistorical.
It would be like a Hitler/Third Reich musical that frames their part in WW2 as just trying to build up their economy and give their people something to be proud of after their loss during WW1. But completely omitting all the atrocities, racism, institutionalized evil, etc.
This might not be horrible, except that there are people who think that they are learning US history by watching/listening to Hamilton.
It would be like a Hitler/Third Reich musical that frames their part in WW2 as just trying to build up their economy and give their people something to be proud of after their loss during WW1. But completely omitting all the atrocities, racism, institutionalized evil, etc.
To extend your metaphor, your Springtime for Hitler would tout a Jewish cast to laud itself as progressive and further launder the third reich's reputation
Oh fuck. I’ve never seen the musical, was that not done as a way to comment on the racism of amerika’s founders? Do they just totally white wash the slavery, racism, and sexism they all had?
It really depends on what you mean by commentary. The play acknowledges that slavery happened and it was bad, but doesn't seem to think that implies anything about the mythology of America's founding. The Founding Fathers who all owned slaves or participated in the slave trade are presented as uncomplicated heroes. At the end there's a throwaway line about how if Alexander Hamilton hadn't died in a completely inane duel he would have totally become an abolitionist and a feminist.
You literally described “Springtime for Hitler” from the producers.
i will not let people enjoy antisemitism, pro-copaganda, transphobia, etc.
I don’t recall anything transphobic in the books specifically, the author is just transphobic.
Like 90% of media is pro cop.
Okay the antisemitism part is fair.
Twilight as some weird pedo undertones yet we let people enjoy that.
I don’t recall anything transphobic in the books specifically
I discovered this recently, but the character of Rita Skeeter has some sus characterization
https://twitter.com/ponettplus/status/1270133803328159748
Adding onto that tweet, Rita Skeeter is also an unregistered animagus and transforms into a beetle in order to gain access to places so she can spy on her subjects . Which is incredibly sus in context of JKR's transphobic views
this is, of course, on top of all the antisemitic subtext with the goblin bankers, and the subplot about how hermione is being silly by trying to free the house elves because they LIKE being slaves, and the one asian character being named "cho chang," and on and on and on
wait what the fuck I haven’t read the books in years, she literally named the only asian character that. Fucking fuck.
Twilight as some weird pedo undertones yet we let people enjoy that.
I have vague memories of reading/watching a fair amount of content pointing out how cringy the dynamic is between a barely legal teenaged girl and a forever young hundred year old vampire boy was.
Twilight as some weird pedo undertones
Well you sort of expect that kind of stuff when its written by a Mormon considering their founder married and fucked 14 year olds.
As a pure communist I only stare at the grass growing during summer and paint drying during winter :gigachad-hd:
:meow-knit: no pls i swear ill just watch ice freeze instead! no!
Twilight is equally gross. The story is a hot can of garbage. I read them as a teenager but when I look back on it there are so much problematic stuff on it. Racism, pedophilia, sexism, etc. You name it. It's in there.
“stalking women is how you make them love you” is one fuck of a shit premise for a story.
There's nothing quite like showing up to a job interview and the senior tech sitting in on your interview with your future manager just happens to be wearing a Harry Potter Nazi House lanyard.
The retellings of the Arthurian legend always leave off the part where Merlin calls Morgan le Fay a m*dblood and proceeds to turn around and whip his chattel slave-elves to within an inch of their lives.
My guess: Harry Potter and Hamilton are held up by liberals as serious lenses for analyzing politics. The other media you mention isn't use that way to anywhere near the same extent.
"Let people enjoy things" is a type of liberalism and doesn't really fly here. Media criticism is important, and people discussing the media they enjoy will generally include acknowledgements of the problems with it — otherwise, it invites criticism from the forum at large, which is acceptable.
"Let people enjoy things" as a concept means "don't think critically about this work or point out its flaws because I like it" which really isn't how leftists operate. You can certainly enjoy things despite their flaws, but you're not given a free pass to stan the slavery apologia musical or the terf series without acknowledging all of the things that are fucked up about it.
HP in particular is a hard thing for most of us to continue enjoying to any degree, given that engaging with HP in this day and age is a tacit endorsement of transphobia and we love our trans comrades and hate bigotry.
Media criticism is important
Let's not get too excited here, youtuber
There's probably a consensus here that Harry Potter is one of the more obviously sinister media franchises, given how horrible its creator is. It's also more common for people to associate Harry Potter with their political ideology, well it's common for outspoken liberals to do that. I think that's it honestly, Harry Potter is something only liberals seem to like, so it's immediately associated with liberalism here. Those other things you mentioned are more broad in their audiences.
Even if JKR wasn't a shithead, HP would still suck because the morality is that of nobility/capitalists. The muggles are sheeple who deserve nothing.
Harry Potter is something only liberals seem to like
Idk man, it was something almost EVERY kid liked back when I was growing up. I never read them cuz my mom was going through a weird Christian fundamentalist phase when they came out and so witchcraft was a no no, but fucking every kid who read books back then was reading them, I doubt they all grew up to be Libs. I guess libs are the only ones who still openly fawn over the books as adults tho.
Yeah, there might be a distinction between people who liked Harry Potter as a child (nearly every kid 20 years ago) and adults who continue to bring up the franchise as something they're still engaged with. Liberals are certainly the only ones who frame their political ideology in terms of what Hogwarts house they belong to.
If Rowling had passed away upon completion of the final Harry Potter book (2007) while publicly holding transphobic views (which she didn't yet), one could maaaaaybe make an argument that enjoying her work isn't problematic because she was a victim of prevailing sentiment of her time. But as a living, breathing, and very active opponent of transgender people throughout the last decade- one in which recognition and acceptance is being fiercely fought over (and incrementally advancing)- she has left no doubt that she is a monstrous bigot incapable of change. In light of this, how can you overlook the person and casually enjoy her work?
Her work also contains blatant antisemitism, support of slavery, and SV/SA as punishment against a “bad” character.
It's by far the most obnoxious "media as political identity" from the libs, and even when ignoring the terrible person J.K. Rowling is (which you shouldn't), it's simply not that good as a work of art.
The first three books and movies are alright, but mostly because they're good children's novels. Then it gets sloppy. Cringy romances (and characters whose only purpose is to be that LI), baffling decisions, redemption arcs for people who don't deserve redemption (because they still believe the ideals of the organization they left), etc. There's some good plot ideas in these later books too, but it's simply too badly written to lead anywhere.
Especially Book 7 is a slog, and didn't finish it even during my H*rry Potter phase (I did it to have something in common with a person I was interested in lmao)
