It seems like Russia is very much still holding back at this state
I just want to point out that yes they're sending in the B-team, but if not committing A-team resources to this under any circumstances was never an option (which would be wise imo), then I don't thinks this point matters at all. Nevertheless, we have no fucking idea if their latest capabilities are in play or not.
Nevertheless, we have no fucking idea if their latest capabilities are in play or not.
You are seeing a lot of upgunned t-72s with modern enhancements but not a whole lot of t-90s or even the new armatas in the field for a reason. russian doctrine calls for holding back those units as maneuver groups to exploit a breakthrough. since this war is more about bringing ukraine to heel and less about pouring through the north german plain i doubt they will make an appearance
considering the t-90 is just a reworked t-72 with modern materials, optics and electronics i would disagree. the t-80 line was a dead end so they went back to basics after the panic from the iraqis getting smashed in '91 died down. people realized the steel tipped AP rounds didn't have a chance to beat M1 armor and the export models were pretty questionable to begin with.
a principle of tank warfare is that who shoots first often wins the fight, and everything the russians put into modernizing the t-72 line works towards that concept.
I'm not OP, and my specialization is in WW2 Naval gunnery and not land combat. With that said, I believe that the T-80's issues are that it's simply not quite as economic as the T-72 series, uses more fuel, and tended to need much more maintenance because of the gas-turbine engine compared to other Soviet designs. It was mostly for those economic reasons that the Russians dropped it as a developmental base after the fall of the union, as there weren't any funds left to maintain them. With that said, the Tank still had unmatched tactical maneuverability for its time, and I believe its reputation was largely tarnished by how hard the Russian forces got owned by ex-Soviet Chechen forces in the Battle of Grozny. The T-80 series is still getting modernisations though, and I believe the Armata series is a pretty large departure from the T-72/T-90s anyways.
I'm with you on just about everything
I just want to point out that yes they're sending in the B-team, but if not committing A-team resources to this under any circumstances was never an option (which would be wise imo), then I don't thinks this point matters at all. Nevertheless, we have no fucking idea if their latest capabilities are in play or not.
You are seeing a lot of upgunned t-72s with modern enhancements but not a whole lot of t-90s or even the new armatas in the field for a reason. russian doctrine calls for holding back those units as maneuver groups to exploit a breakthrough. since this war is more about bringing ukraine to heel and less about pouring through the north german plain i doubt they will make an appearance
Interesting, mind if I ask if you have a place to read more about this sort of thing?
here is a pdf from the army about defeating the russian BTG with examples of when they have put the t-90 into operation and when they haven't
there's a couple of more sources on libgen about russian doctrine that you might find interesting: https://u1lib.org/book/734978/1955a2
deleted by creator
haven't you heard? the f-35 is getting marketed by lockmart now as a long range scout that will designate targets for armor and artillery troops!!!
deleted by creator
I heard the modded t-72s were good and the t-90s were trash, that wrong?
considering the t-90 is just a reworked t-72 with modern materials, optics and electronics i would disagree. the t-80 line was a dead end so they went back to basics after the panic from the iraqis getting smashed in '91 died down. people realized the steel tipped AP rounds didn't have a chance to beat M1 armor and the export models were pretty questionable to begin with.
a principle of tank warfare is that who shoots first often wins the fight, and everything the russians put into modernizing the t-72 line works towards that concept.
This sounds fascinating and I'd love to learn more. What were the problems with the T-80?
I'm not OP, and my specialization is in WW2 Naval gunnery and not land combat. With that said, I believe that the T-80's issues are that it's simply not quite as economic as the T-72 series, uses more fuel, and tended to need much more maintenance because of the gas-turbine engine compared to other Soviet designs. It was mostly for those economic reasons that the Russians dropped it as a developmental base after the fall of the union, as there weren't any funds left to maintain them. With that said, the Tank still had unmatched tactical maneuverability for its time, and I believe its reputation was largely tarnished by how hard the Russian forces got owned by ex-Soviet Chechen forces in the Battle of Grozny. The T-80 series is still getting modernisations though, and I believe the Armata series is a pretty large departure from the T-72/T-90s anyways.
Ty