Thank you @SeventyTwoTrillion for all your effort. :sankara-salute:
If you have any useful resource links please tag me in a comment with the link:
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict
Add to this if you can, thank you.
Links
Time/Map: https://time.is/Ukraine
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ukraine/@49.1162725,31.7993839,7z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x40d1d9c154700e8f:0x1068488f64010!8m2!3d48.379433!4d31.1655799?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1B1PLMhbHmG1aJ2-QNxHY1TksI6HlNhqF&ll=48.60777942568106%2C36.4496511633501&z=7
Leftist discussion threads:
https://hexbear.net/post/177324
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/t03foy/genzedong_russiaukraine_master_discussion_thread/ :kitty-cri-texas:
https://lemmygrad.ml/
Twitter military updaters:
https://nitter.42l.fr/RWApodcast
https://nitter.net/ASBMilitary :kitty-cri:
https://nitter.net/Militarylandnet
https://nitter.net/MihajlovicMike
https://nitter.net/KofmanMichael
https://nitter.net/TadeuszGiczan/status/1498673348183744518
https://www.youtube.com/c/DefensePoliticsAsia/videos
obvious disclaimers about taking all of them with tonnes of salt etc
Global South Perspective: https://nitter.net/kiranopal_/status/1498723206496145413
Better war/propaganda analysis:
https://www.understandingwar.org
https://www.moonofalabama.org/
News updates:
https://www.cgtn.com/special/UkraineCrisis.html
Live: https://www.cgtn.com/special/Live-update-Ukraine-Russia-border-crisis.html
YT/Video in Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/c/PatrickLancasterNewsToday/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/RussellBentleyTe
Previous megathreads
!news@hexbear.net RSS Feed https://hexbear.net/feeds/c/news.xml
They’re really trying to push this Z hate symbol shit huh? Trying to say it’s the new swastika? God damn.
I think there hasn’t been another year I’ve pulled my Jew card as much as I have in 2022. We’ve gotten to the point that take-havers are openly connecting this military op to the fucking Holocaust. While simultaneously saying it’s worse and actually the Holocaust wasn’t that bad and it was actually the red army that did more crimes and did you know the Russians have a crime gene- er, cultural leaning towards crime! I’m a progressive, btw! :very-intelligent:
Never in my life have I witnessed the hypernormalization of fascist rhetoric on this scale at this speed. Millennial and older comrades, is this what it was like after 9/11? I hate it here :what-the-hell:
9/11 was a little before current political splits occurred, like red state blue state were new terms back then. So back then it felt like liberals and conservatives weren't as distinct for one thing.
There was a very immediate unification among Americans that all Muslims needed to be exterminated immediately. It was more severe than anything we have now, unless there have been incidents of Russian speakers getting murdered or Orthodox churches getting vandalized. Because that happened. Sikh people wearing turbans would get murdered. The nightly news would be endless stories of nefarious Al Qaeda plots everywhere. There was that completely fabricated story about the giant mountain compound.
Everyone was afraid too back then, like the US was going to get invaded and destroyed within a matter of weeks. The lead up to the Iraq War was a horrifying parade of state department ghouls being given full authority to rile up the public into despising countries they had never even heard of.
Also recruiters were everywhere. Military propaganda in every ad, before movies, in the movies, in the mouths of your relatives.
Yeah we had one of those in front of my school too. The most evil thing we did were flag prayers, where the students would circle around the American flag every morning, hold hands, and pray for the longevity and safety of the USA. It was encouraged by teachers at first, then became a self-directed thing by the students. One kid got featured in the local news for his ardent strict adherence to daily flagpole prayers.
There's simply nothing like that now that I know of. Post 9/11 George W. USA, like 2001 to around 2007, was simply evil on a level I can't begin to describe. Social panics everywhere, people getting fired for lack of appropriate patriotism, songs on the radio censored. It was real, real bad. People seem bloodthirsty and fascist now but it just doesn't compare to back then. People now are more worn out and tired.
In all our philosophy, I had never dreamed the face of evil would be so... tacky.
Ask any random person now and they'll say Al Qaeda was responsible for that. The framing worked.
Is there a link to further reading on this? I barely remember the anthrax scare...
Orthodox churches getting vandalized.
This has been happening, although mostly in Canada. Probably because that's where a lot of Ukrainian Nazis went after they lost WW2.
I honestly thought it had been happening but had tried to be more optimistic. Goddammit I'm so tired.
Orthodox churches often have Greek or Russian in the name. I doubt most Canadians are aware that Ukrainians will still go to a Russian Orthodox church. They just see Russian and want to do some petty vandalism,
Someone tried to set a Russian school in Berlin on fire. Luckily it was an amateurish attempt and little damage was done.
The Russian orthodox church in Copenhagen was graffitied with Z-symbols despite having expressed sympathy for the suffering of the Ukrainian people and organising aid for refugees.
I don't think there has been major violent attacks on civilian Russian targets abroad yet. But we're getting closer to it the more hate and Russophobia the propaganda machine churns out. At some point stochastic terrorism will happen.
I'm going to anticipate attacks on Russian people and orthodox churches are going to be something mainly in Europe where people might have a better idea of how to even identify Russians That's going to fucking suck and I'm pessimistic about it since I know some countries are already getting into racist panics because they're accepting refugees.
Here in the states the most likely to violently attack someone out of xenophobia would be our chuds, except half of them love Putin and the other half think Gorbachev is still president. I doubt either of them could identify the Russian language from hearing it except maybe some of the smarter fascists.
The Russian orthodox church in Copenhagen was graffitied with Z-symbols despite having expressed sympathy for the suffering of the Ukrainian people and organising aid for refugees.
It was vandalized because they expressed sympathy for Ukraine. Nazis and Russian nationalists in Europe are unironically using the Z symbol to show support for the Russian army.
Really does a number on you don’t it . How thin the blanket of civilization really is.
Yeah, this was kind of what it was like after 9/11. America went from not knowing what Muslims were to visceral hatred of Muslims and calls to nuke various muslim countries overnight. The media was in perfect lockstep demanding blood and vengeance. smart people who should have known better turned in to racist warmongers overnight. Displays of patriotism became louder and more effusive, "Support the troops" became an all encompassing thought terminating cliche.
Not related to the fascist rhetoric, but one interesting difference I feel is that post-9/11 mostly had the vibe of "we must respond!! This cannot go unanswered! We will righteously punish them! We will end terrorism!" while this time there's an undercurrent of "Are we losing our grip on the world....?" Of course, that undercurrent is shaken off but I think it's still simmering there--even to those who do not subscribe to leftist ideas.
Millennial and older comrades, is this what it was like after 9/11?
I'm not that old to remember much from that time, but I remember my math teacher telling me that he got stopped by the TSA or whatever when visiting the US for some teaching conference or something, because he had a beard back then, and they mistook his surname as one of Arabic origin.
This was a Afrikaans guy with slightly darker skin. That's how insane the fervour was back then I guess.
The big difference here is that the US is guaranteed to lose a war against Russia instantly so the powers that be can't let that bloodlust develop into actual war. It's going to be the cold war over again, only this time it will be as farce.
It's weird being a jew and having to watch liberals completely erase the history of using ethnic conflict as a tool for protecting the Ukraine ruling class.
Holocaust denialism :unity: Not reading Marx
It's okay to remain neutral-skeptic. The Bucha massacre is weird the way it is being presented. The Mariupol theater airstrike narrative didn’t all add up, neither did the hospital shit. Nor does 90% of what you will read in MSM. I’m not going to carry water for RU but the way the media runs with these stories with limited information / no rock hard throbbing proof should be raising flags for anyone critical. The burden of proof is on the accuser, but that has never seemed to matter when it comes to western propaganda and consent manufacturing.
I mean Russia invaded a country and there are assuredly mass civilian casualties. What I am talking about is uncritically hopping on-board the consent manufacturing narrative because of muh optics. Don't fall prey to moralistic individualism, and use that position as a bludgeon, like the Xinjiang shit. Everyone remembers the conversation in left spaces "I mean China bad so maybe they are doing a genocide we don't really know yet, so lets just put it on the backburner." As though your opinion or condemnation means or changes anything if Russia massacred a bunch of people and you decided to condemn it first.
This idea that we are obligated to publicly address condemn every single accusation by the western media is wrecker shit 101. It's the same optics obsessed shit that podcasters concern themselves with, hyper-online-individualism, competing to form the perfect take on every piece of news. We should be collecting available information and applying a critical lens, not drawing conclusions prematurely.
I guess we did have that one person in here saying the most reputable sources are NYT and mediabiasfactcheck that got banned when I asked them to name their favourite propaganda. so thats cool.
I don't know, I like some consistency in people's judgement. You had no problem condemning the war on Iraq or Libya? So you should have no problem condemning the war on Ukraine.
Regarding civilian casualties:
From 4 a.m. on 24 February 2022, when the Russian Federation's armed attack against Ukraine started, to 24:00 midnight on 2 April 2022 (local time), the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) recorded 3,455 civilian casualties in the country: 1,417 killed and 2,038 injured
I'm fairly certain the Bucha massacre (and others we just don't know about yet) happened at the hands of Russian soldiers or mercenaries. Why would any reactionary army be morally superior to the US army? I'm also certain that Ukrainian armed personnel is responsible for quite a few atrocities we may never learn about. This is what war is.
I really don't know how you can be fairly certain of that. Ukraine and the western media have been lying, overwhelmingly and obviously, so to take something they claim and say you are fairly certain of it seems foolish. So is ruling it out as impossible.
Ukraine and the western media have been lying, overwhelmingly and obviously
Just like Russia. Also we're talking about a bunch of very incompetent players. A conspiracy this big is a bit too much for them. Photos and videos from locals as well as from international press, intercepted radio communications, satellite images - this is more evidence than what Bush went to war with Iraq over. The massacre is also consistent with how the Russian army behaved in Chechnya and Syria, and with the behavior of Wagner mercenaries in Lybia.
Where are the photos of mass graves then? Ive seen no evidence or proof of the scale of massacre they are claiming. Satelite images I've seen show the area was shelled heavily. By who? No one seems to agree.
I dont understand the point you are trying to make with Iraq.
I guess semantically 9-22 bodies in a grave qualifies as a "mass grave" as in "multiple bodies in one grave", but I'm not really on the same page that 22 bodies qualifies as a mass grave during a full scale invasion/war and this doesn't corroborate the claim of 300-500 civilians tied up and executed by crazed marauders that you are keen on believing for whatever reason.
Its happening? I'll be honest, I did not think the US would be this stupid.
Yes please start WW3 already by antagonizing all your enemies at once and bringing the world closer together against you, what could possibly go wrong.
It’s been postponed cuz Nancy Icecreamfridge caught Covid literally a few hours after this news broke :sicko-flipped:
As someone who’s lied about having ailment in order to get out of work … I guess I could respect that?
Honestly dont think much will come from this
I think there are only 2 things that will ensure a military response:
- the us puts missiles in taiwan Or
- the US formally recognises taiwan
Of course I don't think China will go to war as the first option either, however history is just multiple small steps isn't it? The whole Russia vs NATO is a series of small steps over decades.
The China vs US conflict is also going to be like that I feel, the US will keep pushing until there is a red line that can't be crossed and people will look back at the 2020s when the US kept fucking around recklessly as perhaps the point of no return?
i think missiles in Taiwan is more likely to provoke a response than formal recognition, the first is a massive military threat while the second is big but still mostly symbolic
I would guess the exact same playbook they have been using for decades, fund extremists, foster instability, build consent, make everyone in the US even more racist, start a proxy war, sanctions, point nukes at China then :shocked-pikachu:
they are trying very hard to pry taiwan away from china by reasserting it's independence
A Danish MSM channel ran an article about a Danish mercenary who confirmed how he had witnessed Ukrainians executing POW's. Kudos to them for even bringing the story I guess.
But then the liberal clownery started. We can't have a Ukraine bad story without attaching a "... but Russia is worse". The article went on to have some sort of expert explain how executing POW's was illegal "even if they had invaded another country" (ie. even if they were Russian and deserved it) and went on to claim that while the Ukraine was being a good boy and was investigating all claims of war crimes, Russia flatly refused to do so.
The article finished with the same "expert" stating that while all sides could be expected to do war crimes in a large conflict, Russia was doing "systematic" war crimes on a much bigger scale than Ukraine. Of course no proof of that claim was given.
Reporting live from Ukraine (country code UK, I'm told). The people are miserable here, you can see it on their pallid faces. I'm told an average of 225 people are dying a day here for the past month. I can see beggars on the street. People are worried about not being able to heat their homes this and next year. The Russians have planted their white, red, and blue flags all over the country: outside cafes, government offices, even on people's homes. Though they've redesigned it to an even more ominous design of red, giant X on top of a blue and white background. I suppose this is the obvious evolution of the fascistic Z symbol they've been using.
The skies are constantly cloudy from the smoke of the Russians mobile crematoriums. I'm told despite these they're also leaving dead bodies all over the place. I haven't seen those yet but I saw a dead body by an alley yesterday and it told me to stop taking pictures of it or it would take my camera. Russian propaganda has made even the corpses here against free and open journalism.
I'm asking you to continue donating and funding this journalism via my Gofundme and ETH donation links.
“He’s Polish so it’s not racist because they’re the same race”
Which is why Poles have famously never been discriminated against by other Europeans.
Imagine believing you can use race "science" to talk a racist out of being a racist.
I genuinely can't imagine typing something so disgusting. What is wrong with these people
:so-true: Calling them wildlings like this is Game of Thrones
Guess that makes him a kneeler
(not all of them, but mostly)
Glad they added this clarification, wouldn't want to be racist or anything
All men who left Ukraine after the outbreak of hostilities will be detained upon return
"They will have to explain where and how they managed to cross the border," said Alexei Danilov, head of the National Security and Defense Council.
He stressed that all the men who left Ukraine were recorded. Upon returning, they will have to report through which point and on the basis of which legal documents they left.
Safe to say the Ukrainian government is waging two wars now, a successful war against Ukrainians and a not so successful one against Russia
lol i just got banned from Reddit by admins for 3 days for posting this Jacobin article… report said its for “promoting violence”
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/ukraine-russia-putin-azov-neo-nazis-western-media
Some countries and NGOs are finally talking about removing all vetoes from the security council so that all war crimes can be prosecuted.
It is long past due that war criminals from all countries including the five that hold security council vetoes end up at the Hague if they engage in economic or military brutality against civilians.
500k kids died in Iraq from starvation from liberal sanctions. Same as if they had been bombed with a B-2 imho.
yankees have the "invade the hague" thing
definitely not incredibly mask off lmaoi have always wondered how that scenerio would play out...like some U.S. official in on trail for war crimes and the U.S. launches a full scale invasion of europe, a nominally nuclear power. or do we just level the netherlands and the rest of europe is just like "welp oh well".
The Netherlands is not a nuclear power so no need to worry about that. An actual Hague invasion would probably not be a full-scale land invasion. It would probably be more like a bunch of special ops goons in helicopters landing in the Hague to spring the yankee war criminal out of jail before taking off again.
There wouldn't be much the rest of Europe could do about it. They would seethe and cope about it but what else could they do? Sanction the country whose financial system they depend on? Military action against a psychotic nuclear power with world-ending capabilities? Hell, given that it is the US we're talking about, most of Europe would probably be making excuses for them: "The ICC has clearly overstepped it's bounds here as colonel Braydenn Burgerfuck was clearly defending liberal western democracy when he set fire to that children's hospital".
Anyways, the Hague invasion act is a purely symbolic piece of legislation to appease chuds at home and to swing the empire's dick in the face of the rest of the world. No yank will ever face criminal responsibility at the Hague as the Evil Empire, just like Russia and Israel among others are not parties to the treaties, giving the court no jurisdiction over them. Yankee war crimes can continue uninterrupted.
That's not really a real thing. Look at Black Hawk Down and imagine that level of carnage happening in a major European city. neat, clean extraction missions only happen in movies. Another example would be the failed attempt to rescue US hostages held by Iran after the revolution there. yet another example would be the raid on bin Laden's house, where the assault team crashed a helicopter in Pakistan. And all they were trying to do was kill and old man and his family.
ah ok that would make more sense. so overwhelming show of force, please put down your weapons, give us our men and let us leave. blah blah sanctions and economic war to come later
The UNSC has considered this proposal very earnestly and has decided to issue a rare 5-member ultra veto.
How do they expect this would happen, any existing process to remove the vetos could surely be vetoed itself, so you expect nations with directly opposing interests to go over to a system that has very clear and obvious advantages for one side and disadvantages for the other?
A report came out in 2017 that said the 500k excess deaths from sanctions was a result of manipulation by the Baathist regime at the time. Idk if it's true there's a lot of propaganda in both directions. The 2017 study suggests that there was no increase in deaths from available census data and that Saddam's government somehow convinced the data entry people to fudge the numbers, but as far as I know they don't provide any evidence that the numbers were faked, they just say that census data doesn't show the excess mortality. I don't know what to believe. the 2017 report wouldn't be the first time that reports of excess death from sanctions were undermined, and they don't really explain how massive sanctions that directly reduced food imports didn't result in any excess deaths at all.
they don’t really explain how massive sanctions that directly reduced food imports didn’t result in any excess deaths at all.
Ah, you see, it was because those scheming foreigners cheated and broke the sanctions. This also gives a concurrent convenient excuse for why the sanctions failed to achieve their stated purpose.
Yeah I'm very suspicious. The title of the 2017 rebuttal paper even uses "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" in its title, and you can manipulate stats in all kinds of different ways by moving the goal posts around. Even if there weren't hundreds of thousands of deaths that level of siege and restriction of calories and medicine should still have lead to a huge increase in excess deaths. Malnourished people are much less likely to carry a pregnancy to term, malnourished children get sick at a higher rate, and so forth.
And the blanket accusation that Saddam somehow changed the results without UNICEF noticing smells like cope.
Idk, the whole thing stinks. And even in the best case scenario early childhood malnourishment produces huge developmental problems that persist for your entire life. If the article said "The deaths were exaggerated and the sanctions regime is still horrific and destructive" I'd be a bit more inclined to give them credit.
Two articles in today's NY Times. Friedman: "How Do We Deal With a Superpower Led by a War Criminal?" A news article - "History Shows War Criminals Go Unpunished — if They Stay in Power"
CTRL-F both articles -
Bush - Phrase not found
Cheney - Phrase not found
Rumsfeld - Phrase not found
Obama - Phrase not found
Clinton - Phrase not found
Albright - Phrase not found
Nixon - Phrase not found
Kissinger - Phrase not found
Reagan - Phrase not found
I have returned!
Working on the writeup for the last week now. This might take a long while...
I haven't checked in for a while because the majority of the world buying into the Pro-Ukraine propaganda so fast was too infuriating... not to mention the horribly racist comments everywhere. I'm going to start tuning back into what's happening, but I'm really baffled by such this universal response. It's like someone flipped a switch and everyone fell in line
I guess I'm just a bit naive when it comes to this, but the speed of the response was shocking
Your average boomer, millenial and zoomer has grown up in a petri dish full of anti Russian propaganda. From movies, books and video games. All the west needed to do was turn on the latent programming MK ULTRA style
Everyone surprised by this is showing their age. The exact same thing happened with Iraq. Twice.
I mean in only in my early 20s and I'm not surprised. Maybe added perspective from living in the global south? But at the same time I'm a :lmayo:, but I still knew this kind of propaganda wave by the west was very possible
I just meant you could not have been old enough to understand what went on in the leadup to the 2003 invasion of Iraq and be surprized by this.
The exact same thing happened with Iraq. Twice.
Wow I don't remember people hating America and everything American. Where did that happen?
Russians in movies are always criminals of one kind or another, or occasionally they are le brave liberal dissident fleeing other russians. Everything in Russia is always worn down and grey. The weather is always bad.
ever since the bolivian coup i've been paying attention to these episodes and honestly it's always like this when the imperial machine starts churning: a barrage of propaganda, from the most ridiculous shit to the very plausible, and people are completely taken in
for a while, whatever the empire is targeting becomes the major topic of conversation, for every single western drone, and comments like "you know, i've never been supportive of/against X, but this time it just has to be done!" become very common
western people (and 3rd worlders who aren't protected against this) will give up on every value they thought they had just so they can go along with the hegemonic narrative, just so they won't feel like they're wrong, or out of the norm
a while after that, especially after the empire achieves its objectives (or fails to do so, which is slowly starting to be the case more often than not), the machine slows down, and everyone forgets whatever that previously extremely important subject was, just waiting for the media to tell them what's important and wrong once again
it's fucking horrifying
i was reading the wikivoyage page on cuba yesterday and they had a big banner at the top warning about how the protests last summer had "died down" but tensions were still present and to be careful bc of the "extremely heavy-handed" cuban police. probably no one has bothered to get rid of it because wikivoyage is kind of dead but it reminded me of that insufferable week and the insane media push that had everyone repeating their lines. i had honestly mostly forgotten about it because the protests petered out so quick but that was a great example of what you are talking about. the media decides to tell everyone who the bad guy is this month and everyone passively absorbs and accepts it and then moves on as soon as it's time for the new thing. bolivia, venezuela, cuba, north korea, afghanistan. this one will probably last a bit longer because of the refugees and the fact that it's a full on war but even if it is still ongoing i bet no one will give a shit about it in 2 or 3 months now that the fighting seems like it will be mostly contained to the Donbass from here on out.
If you said Ukraine was full of nazis then Amerikkkans would support them even harder
This is narrative slavery at its finest. People are already primed to believe Ukraine good and Russia bad, so they'll believe anything that already fits into that narrative with ease while changing it becomes extremely hard. Combine that with constant appeal to emotion to shut off the brain and atomization so there's not many people one would listen to with respect, and you get a slave that'll willfully spread your agenda while taking pride in doing so for free
Yeah I had to just check out for a while for the same reason. It was making me feel constantly angry with the only 2 people I talk to irl and how they thought I was naive for "believing Russian propaganda." :agony-deep:
But now I'm regretting how ive stopped paying attention because I don't know what's going on anymore.
It sucks having to weigh your mental health and your only social interactions against being informed and understanding what's happening in the world.
To be fair, anyone claiming to know what's going on is a dirty liar.
Agreed. Of course I meant knowing what narratives are being pushed or even if there's any consensus on what the "current events" are.
someone flipped a switch
For me it was a country invading another country pretty much unprovoked
