For real, it's the one thing giving me hope for the future
It's good, but remember folks, there's legitimate criticisms to be made and it's unwise to completely trust in the CPC, as much as I'd like to
Honestly, my least favorite part about China discourse is that the things that are actually good and the things that are actually just bad about them are completely ignored and people just focus on propaganda talking points that are meaningless.
The biggest left critique of China should always be that there is very limited free movement within the country for their citizenry and this is slowly working out to result in regionalist class characteristics as certain parts of the country are far wealthier than others. Reform attempts have consistently not gone far enough.
The biggest favorable talking point should be that they're building a serious alternative to IMF financing for poor countries to build infrastructure. There is no global left without an alternative to the IMF and foreign aid from the USSR was tremendously important for the global left to survive as it did.
Instead everyone is focused on Uyghers/Falun Gong or if their teaching Marxist literature in schools.
Yeah but in America we already hear it constantly and none of it's legit, let us have a tiny safe space as a treat.
Recently watched American Factory, and it was interesting to me how clear the class lines were compared to any supposed cultural divide. I went into it thinking it would be some story about the "culture clash" between the US workers and Chinese owners, and was surprised by at how different the narrative actually was. From what I could tell, it seemed to be more about Chinese and American workers getting screwed and showing some class solidarity with each other, while the Chinese and American managers and consultants do everything they can together to stop them from unionizing. There were no CCP officials in the film, and it would be interesting to know how they might view it, but it definitely doesn't make the ruling class in either China or the US look particularly good.
I watched it too, and although we can't necessarily take the messaging at face value, given its produced by Obama's production company, it does highlight the contradictions inherent in the current system, and the universality of class.
Another thing I noticed in the film, and in talking to Chinese workers, they do work hard and a lot and it's something that's not really imaginable in the West. I do have reason to believe that's being addressed though, given rising wages and improving conditions. Also, since it was filmed a while ago (2015?), before the anti-corruption campaign was in full swing, I'm curious to see if the secretary of the company's union in China is still in his post, given he was related to the CEO.
its produced by Obama’s production company
They bought the rights after it was completed and debuted at a film festival. They didn't do anything with the film besides marketing and distribution and all that.
No worries. They market it like it was their brainchild (unsurprisingly) but they just swooped in and slapped their name on it.
I know someone who worked on the production of the film and it really pissed most people off that they basically flaunted it as "The Obama factory documentary" after they bought it.
They bought the rights after it was completed and debuted at a film festival. They didn’t do anything with the film besides marketing and distribution and all that.
For the sake exonerating the filmmakers further, It's also worth noting that they dogwhistled the Communist Manifesto in their acceptance speech at the Academy Awards.
My username is in reference to a cartoon bear with a hunny addiction, and has been since I started using it many, many years ago.
In here it's mostly "There's legitimate criticisms to be made but stop voicing them."
Like MLs here are all "Critical support, critical support" all the time, but it's usually 90% support and 10% critic.
Wow, the China discourse on this site is unbelievably different than it was when this site was new.
Really, the election cycle is so ingrained that you can't fathom a vision spanning multiple decades?
Counterpoint to counterpoint: It’s looking good the same way as Post-WWII America or 80s Japanese.
Disclaimer: I have only lived in one of the objects of analogy, but understood the languages of all three.
This is literally what neocon cranks like George Friedman says about China lmao. China isn't taking the path the USSR did, but if they did that they'd have been crushed by now.
I am sure Friedman didn’t compare China with Post WWII America, and by referring to 80s Japan, I didn’t mean it will crush immediately, but rather its achievements and that China have similar problems lies in its growth mode.
Also, define what USSR mode means, wartime communism, NEP, Stalin mode, and all kinds of “economic reform” begin with Khrushchev are all USSR’s path. Simply saying “Mao’s path” is similarly ambitious.
I don’t see the poster not optimistic about Chinese future, the problem is:
- Buy which way are you optimistic to Chinese’s future,e.g a reformist one, or a revolutionist one?
- How do you get optimistic by interacting with which fraction of Chinese proletariat?
Without knowledge of these, I am afraid it’s impossible you two can have anything “to say to” each other.
99% of the leftist project is supporting whoever is against America or the "west". I wish Russia would rebrand to the USSR again so the people on here could circlejerk it.
It would be fun, Putin declaring the Dictatorship of the Proletariat and then making a secret police out of Nazis.
Why do you think there are more homosexuals in the capitalist west then in glorious communist countries tap my head bourgeois decadence
I don't really know shit about what may happen in the future but my wisdom teeth are doomed, getting them out tomorrow
I mean i won't need much of them since I'm half ginger buuut I don't want to send a comrade down a dark path
Doing a lil vicodin isn't a dark path imo. I'm too much of a cheap bastard to get addicted to opiates I feel like
just order kratom, safer, legal in most states (if you are in the states)
If the world shatters due to Capitalism, China will be there to pick up the pieces.
The CCP is not Socialist, it is Nationalist, its goal is to create a strong China that can rival the US. It`s leaders understand that neoliberalism will lead to disaster, and that capitalism under the firm control of the CCP is much better for creating a strong China. Sure, its competition with the US is useful for relieving US imperialist pressure, but if you're working towards a Communist world, you're in for major disappointment if you think China is the answer.
China is not in the socialist mode of production but they are run by Marxists. They're navigating their way through the trajectory laid out by historical materialism building capitalist industrial production before transition to socialism.
frankly xi jinping is farther left than the other guys that came before him. i think the chinese legitimately had the cia fooled and they figured they'd make good partners. the US shipped a bunch of industry over and taught them how to use it.
the fact of the matter is that many chinese have seen their incomes multiply by ten fold, while having a purchasing power similar to western countries in the most urbanized areas. this is practically unheard of.
im not about to say china is perfect, but if xi jinping, a by the book lefty for his entire career, is able to catch the ire of the cia, i'd say theyre tentative allies at the least.
Nationalism is an appropriate response to centuries of foreign exploitation. It is a progressive force in these instances. Or do you think poorly of black nationalists as well?
Is China's decision to do nationalism not a revolutionary tactic? I thought the idea was to try and unite all the different groups under one banner. It's not like there's a lot of Han supremacy or imperialist expansionism associated with Chinese nationalism (at least no where near as bad as white supremacy and baked in imperialism of Western nationalism). It's mostly about working hard and being nice.
That's fair, I guess it's the same situation as the USSR in its post revolutionary revisionist state. Lots of utilization of nationalist language to try and rally the peasant class that resulted in a show burning re-ignition of toxic nationalism.
Hopefully China doesn't go down the same path. Nationalism is a dangerous game to play.
I do understand why it's naive to fully trust China and Dengist policies have created a lot of misery, but from what I understand, it has gotten somewhat better in China. Of course one the biggest thing holding the CPC back both materially and mentally is US aggression. It is equally as naive to downplay the fact that China is stuck in it's state capital system due to it having to fight off the US.
Deng Xiaoping Theory has literally eradicated misery on a scale and at a speed never seen before. If China continued down there path Mao set, it would've collapsed decades ago and China would be on par with Nigeria at best. It's not sexy and romantic or epic and based, but it fucking works. China could've transitioned to socialism 30 years ago and been about as prosperous as the USSR but it would suffer from the same contradictions that led to the USSR's collapse. Maybe they're bullshitting and will never transition. Maybe they're forreal and will actually go through with it. Either way they're resisting US Imperialism and lifting people out of poverty at an extremely fast rate, while providing global south countries with the means to improve their own lot. That's good enough for me.___
while providing global south countries with the means to improve their own lot
Are they doing this?
Honestly im not super educated on the topic but I'll put my point of view out there. I think that as it is it has a lot of work to do before I feel like it will become anywhere close to true socialism, THAT SAID It's infinitely better than the united states in that while still having private companies and class disparities it is still actively against the idea at least in theory, the children are being taught how communism works and the horrors of imperialism, none of which the west does. It's also one of the only countries standing up to the US' global terrorism. On the muslims I don't have much I can say without embarrassing myself with my ignorance. I don't really like talking about china but that's my (kind of uneducated) opinion on china.
