I've asked my idiot cousins this a few times, and they're not really representative of all chuds, they're the southern evangelical white nationalist variety, except they also identify as libertarians so they're just incoherent morons really. Their main concerns are detached from any of their material interests they really only care about things they see on TV or facebook. Their main thing was a state where evangelical Christianity is the assumed dominant ideology.
They'd want a tightly regulated media ecosystem, where there are no claims of racism or homophobia ever, and every news station would be explicitly snake handling evangelical in its content. All children's entertainment would be devoid of anything they find disagreeable. Anything leftist or liberal would be censored on facebook and TV, except as an illustration of what is bad, kind of like the 2 minute hate.
They'd also want some kind of ID system and some kind of systemic discrimination against anyone not identifying as their specific type of evangelical. I asked if that meant some kind of patches on clothing, like the yellow stars on Jews, and they said maybe. I also mentioned the historical jizya, where Muslim states would impose an extra tax on non-Muslims in the region, and they seemed to like the idea of their political enemies being the only people who pay taxes.
In short, chuds don't know what they want. They already have everything they want.
Smoldering ashes.
They can never achieve their ideal goal because there is no endgame.
Their "utopianism" is not an ideal to strive toward but an excuse to destroy, to lash out at anything around them.
They are obsessed with the aesthetics of war and with violence, the image of the man with a gun in his hand. That imagery requires an enemy, and that enemy is both an eternal foe and also the embodiment of some final battle to be fought to impose their will. The primary contradiction of fascism is that the final battle and the eternal conflict are fundamentally at odds. They need an enemy otherwise then what? Become communists?
Nah, then their society collapses once the war time economy can't benefit off war. That or exclude another group of people and go to war with them, but at this point you'll need a high birth rate so you can have cannon fodder for your cannons.
That was basically my point. Fascism cannot exist without an existential "threat", an enemy.
Hence the preoccupation with the eternal struggle and the final battle which are fundamentally at odds with one another. If they ever succeed they would split faster than the first international.
Ironically Hitler's "final solution" had nothing to do with resolving the contradictions of the existing social order, it would have simply rearranged the existing order and retained the contradictions inherent to capitalism, thus inevitably resulting in more pogroms, more holocaust, more genocide.
The fundamental conflict between fascism and communism is that both are answers to the contradictions of capitalism, but only through communism do we seek to solve those contradictions as opposed to reconfiguring and ultimately heightening them.
Yeah Starship troopers still has pointy headed libs, but they’re clearly just the to be a target for anger.
Ehhh, Heinlein had weird politics but I think the world of Starship Troopers is a bit too diverse and democratic for actual CHUDs. If anything it’s more of a weird centrist boomer lib utopia. The protagonist is Latin American, the Earth is globally United, and indeed anyone can serve in the military and become enfranchised, this is too inclusive for actual CHUDs and Fash, they need a ideal aristocracy. Even if requiring military service is a prerequisite to voting, that’s still voting.
Unironically a lot of them seem to want to just want neoliberalism but they are in charge + more racism, no gays and women in the kitchen and you can freely call people the Gamer Word
I mean just look at Ukraine lol
The thing is, then what? As I've stated above there is no endgame. It's a death cult, and for real not like the unwitting death cult that is neoliberalism (for most of its followers even if the acolytes know what they are doing).
You're correct, constant, unending struggle is key to all actually articulated Fascist doctrines. They need someone to fight against and in the absence of an enemy they will create one. It can't survive even if the Bazinga Brains wave a magic wand and make space colonisation possible. Nature doesn't bleed enough and you can't dominate it outright.
In fact I'd say that's the chief difference between a pure Chud like Thiel and a Bazinga like Musk. One needs people to be actively hurt, the other just doesn't really care.
The exception might be Spanish-style Clerico-Fascism (though even that required colonial and rural oppression), but most US chuds wouldn't go for that since it's essentially taking the worst bits of Catholicism and treating them like a particularly insufferable Calvinist would at the level of an entire state.
So I guess if you want a "perfect" Chud state looking at Salazar and turning the awful dial up to 11 is as coherent as you'll get.
In fact I’d say that’s the chief difference between a pure Chud like Thiel and a Bazinga like Musk. One needs people to be actively hurt, the other just doesn’t really care
I’ll be honest I’m not sure which is supposed to be which
Thiel isn't worse than Musk (since Musk arguably results in worse outcomes because he's not immediately, obviously Chaotic Evil.) but he's certainly more malicious, given he was one of the primary funders of Neoreaction during the proto Alt-Right years.
They'd be happy to live forever in the same squalor they're in now, so long as their percieved enemies are even worse off. Chuds no longer have any interest in even making their own lives better, It's all about making everyone else's lives shittier.
Even if you'd get them to understand that someting like the climate crisis is real, they'd just go "I don't give a fuck, I'll boil last"
What I'm saying is :gulag: them all.
Basically this every time I see the news complain about homeless people whose quality of life is, not just less than your own but less squalid than it used to be. I saw a news report about homeless people with doorbells, grills, running water and electricity, and the vitriol they had for these people was unbelievable. Apparently they won't be happy unless the homeless are meeting some kind of misery quota.
Chud paradise: You're working starvation wages, but you get to hunt the unemployed for sport that one day of the year you get off work.
I mean pretty much, even by the admission of the USA labor conditions and life overall got worse in Nazi Germany but you could hunt undesirables for sport so
This goes hand in hand with the social Darwinism at the heart of all reactionary ideologies.
Sorry if this comes off as obvious or if meme responses were more expected, this happens to be a subject I've studied extensively.
Not entirely sure, myself, given that all my dickhead relatives in the deep south are conspiracy-brained Facebook psychos, so their demands for a better world are a mix of impossible idealism and things that probably violate one of the laws of thermodynamics.
Though, I would say that a good place to start would be with a concerted exploration of the "hypocrisy" in their worldview. We all know conservative, evangelical, et al, worldviews are constantly butting up against their own inconsistencies and internal contradictions, but I think that kind of "hypocrisy" only exists because the most common opposing viewpoint (aesthetically kind-faced Liberal Democracy) sees it as such and is, broadly speaking, the ideology that currently holds the most control over the current shape of society and economy. Liberals in the US are, of course, operating on the assumption that the current order of the world is, at minimum, mostly correct and ideal, and that our problems have solutions that exist so long as we behave morally within the framework of a liberal democratic hegemony. Conservatives, at their core, if you get them in like-minded company and a quiet room where they think nobody else will hear them, do not agree with that sentiment.
The reason why American conservatives, in all their permutations, come off as "hypocritical" is because they are simultaneously forced to operate within the current liberal democratic hegemon, while also actively seeking to establish a different framework for society and economy than what we currently live in. A lot of public-facing political maneuvering by contemporary conservatives, reactionaries, and bigots of all stripes looks "hypocritical" because they are trying to shape messaging and policy within an ideological framework that they are budded off from, but also actively oppose at a bare-metal level, and seek to reshape to a framework better suited to their desires and beliefs.
Conservatives are, in essence, idealists, but facing to a reactionary, conservative past, rather than the idealism of a progressive, utopian future, and are acting in accordance with their idealistic past formation of society. They believe they are acting in a way that is perfectly coherent and consistent, because in the ideal future, they will have beaten society into a shape that allows them to differentiate levels of freedom, rights, and enrichment based on racial, religious, and sex/gender-normative grounds as a matter of fact. In their idealized world, it will make sense, at the level of social consensus, that non-white, non-Christian, non-hetero, non-cis people are treated as lesser as a matter of fact. In their idealized world, everyone would agree that those groups deserve to be treated as lesser, and thus exploited or eliminated, and everyone who disagrees would be legally, socially, and maybe even pseudo-scientifically categorized as lesser, and thus excluded from influence of that same social consensus.
In short, I would argue that if you take all the little "hypocrisies" and unfold them into a hypothetical world where those behaviors are no longer hypocritical, you'll have the world that conservatives want, because they're idealist rubes with no ability to materially examine the world as it currently exists, nor to materially examine their own worldview. That very same worldview requires that they abandon scientific and sociological knowledge to remake society in a more ignorant shape of the past where their way of living is allowed to exist unchallenged.
This. Extreme conservatism is at the brain level. They can't stop being afraid of fucking everything.
Functionally, a victorious fascist society would run into new material phenomena, and need to attempt to adapt. This would generate new experiences that would cause the fascists to spiral into paranoia all over again.
Look outside. Theyre utopians and thus on the face ridiculous. Their solution for the material problems of the day is literally "Do everything we're already doing, except more and better"
The big difference is that racial and sexual minorities wouldn't exist except entirely underground and everything in school curricula and entertainment would be dogshit kitsch.
If you ask CHUDs and particularly QAnon psychos what their actual vision for the future is they break down into completely incoherent, stammering slogans about "restoring America" or "returning Christian values to America". They don't have a coherent vision, just a belief that something is wrong and that only dogmatic faith in utopian capitalism, evangelical Protestantism, and electing MAGA psychos to office will make things better. And when they succeed, things automatically become "better" even when nothing materially changes, because they have an ideological/personality cult investment in believing thats true in spite of any evidence.
They'd constantly create new minorities to persecute until there was no one left.
"I'm hwhite people too", said the non-Anglo-Saxon from the wrong family. "But sir", I replied as I loaded my gun, "you're too German-American to be hwhite."
when you remember that even a few italians were unironically lynched
In northern Europe there is definitely a sense that people living south of the Alps and east of the Oder are not 100% white. They are a sort of probationary whites whose racial privileges can be revoked.
IMO the "ideal chud society" is impossible to describe like this, because each chud has their own vague fuzzy idea of what they would do if noone could ever tell them "no." Chudism isn't a coherent political ideology, just reactionary bile and selfish hedonism.
“You know what the problem with Skyrim is these days? Everyone’s obsessed with DEATH!”
In my experience evangelicals (not the outright racial purity types though) weirdly have a soft spot for disabled folks where they don't get lumped in with other minority groups. They see the disabled—especially those who were born with their conditions—as a unique test of faith that God has challenged them with.
Imagine the 1950's but with social media that doesn't moderate fascist content and without any new deal/welfare state/union nonsense.
Racial homogeneity for sure. They'd really want to unscramble the egg in that sense because it turns out people like each other sometimes. Arranged marriages to political ends where the ends are clans of large families intermingling and discussing trade and philosophies of individual rights. They'd be yeoman farmers but also have a super strong military for some reason. They'd have the gold standard back but only after looting all of it from China. There'd be no federal government, except there would be because that's where Hitler was. Then like you were saying, there'd be no one is publicly expressing dissent, except they all do dissent and choose to fuck off to their homestead
In my mind, all of these things are good to them, but sometimes mutually exclusive. I think it's a lot of being reactionary to the outgroup as a fundamental core.
Each of them has this solipsistic idealized life in mind, but it turns out we do live in a society so they can't each have everything they want. They'll butt up against each other and become the new slur.
