I'm not a fan of this discourse because it always leads quickly to Leftists letting people know that they think drug users are dirty or complete fuck ups. Untrustworthy to the core.
If you're talking about people doing drugs, what implies the individuals having poor hygiene? Where is the link??
There are plenty of more malicious takes out there.
I am being undoubtedly too online today. Bringing Twitter discourse to the HexBear.
I submerged myself into the mind-melting twitter discourse, it does seem that some of the "showers are authoritarian people" are involved in the discourse, and seem that they're taking advice like "don't bring drugs in case it offers police an excuse to arrest you" in bad faith. And there are also people talking about "revolutionary self-discipline" and taking a hard stance against drugs in general. You know, splitting hairs over completely inane stuff, the usual on twitter. Psy-op shit.
This is just a basic principal for many groups like the Black Panthers historically, it's obviously much harder to do a revolution if you're always getting drunk or high.
For an able bodied person, yes. For a lot of disabled people, being able to contribute is predicated on them being at a functional high. For me, I can’t contribute without my amphetamines.
No one’s going to criticise you if you need medication to function
Don't be so sure about that. Lots of people are really weird about medication and disability. Straight edge kids, for one.
Can’t you appreciate that you’re the exception to the rule?
I navigate life every day appreciating that I’m the exception to the rule as people talk about drug use. That’s kind of the point. It’s exhausting and whenever I bring up like, “hey you’re discussing or enforcing norms that would personally effect me or my friends or would have personally effected me in the past, so maybe I can offer some perspective,” I get told that I’m not who’s being discussed. Because I’m one of the good addicts. I got sober and I only take the drugs that my doctor says I can and I am able to pass as neurotypical long enough to go canvas or attend a meeting without being disruptive.
Thank you for the clarifying edit above. I see what you’re getting at, yeah. My concern is mainly that there are, indeed, people acting on this intuition about sobriety and dysfunction. It’s good most of the time, but a slight change to the framing makes it more inclusive and has allowed several of my org’s best members to participate with us without any sort of disruption on our part or dysfunction on theirs.
As someone who used to be on ADHD medicine, the poster had the same vibe as my pharmacist. So maybe, calm down.
This is just a basic principal for many groups like the Black Panthers historically,
Starts off reasonable
it’s obviously much harder to do a revolution if you’re always getting drunk or high.
Then the cheap shot.
Like, I can understand if someone has a rule that I disagree with but that's not what I'm complaining. It's the lunch pale hustle. The little extra of the always.
I'm pretty sure they are referencing the dumb meme immediately prior to the one about drugs about how anarchists don't shower.
Some Twitter "anarchist" (the kind that doesn't actually know what that means beyond state=bad but pretends to be an expert of some kind) said something about how if it wasn't for capitalism requiring people to shower everyday for work people wouldn't shower and therefore being clean is a form of capitalist oppression. And then everyone wouldn't shut up about it for like a week. It's still going on actually.
Good context. Gonna put another tally next to my “stay off Twitter” tattoo
The hippies of the 1960s rejected showering and personal grooming as bourgeois values. Plus, it differentiated you from all the squares.
Having spent some time in Europe I can tell you that stinky humans are no fun to be around. I'm told when you don't wash, you don't smell yourself, but I sure do. Plus if I go more than 2 days, I get overcome by non-stoppable itching fits all over. It just feels so good to shower. It's just warm and wet and eyes mostly closed - it's the closest I'll ever get to back in the womb.
That reminds me, I've been meaning to go to the public bath house forever now.
As a non American this seems extremely obvious to me so idk what the struggle session is about. Saw the discourse a bit on Twitter an this isn't about people that need and use drugs for medical reasons to function. It's not about saying addicts are unwelcome on the struggle or that you shouldn't be doing drugs or drinking with comrades
But in an actual protest or community outreach let's say if you, by choice of recreational drug or alcohol use that could have been avoided, aren't as cognitively and hand eye coordination THERE as you can be, then you are increasing the possible danger for you and your comrades and reduce the efficiency of your organizing.
I really don't know any serious successfull radical orgs, now or historically, that haven't been against showing up to party work drunk or noticaby high as a general rule.
Honestly just please stop smelling like weed if you're going anywhere public please
I’ve never understood why some people retain the small so strongly and others don’t. I used to think I didn’t smell because I smoked outside but then there were other people who still smelled after smoking outside and others who hot boxed their rooms without smelling. I dunno. Anyone have an insight there?
I imagine it would be your clothes that smell rather than you, so maybe different clothing material?
Some of it is how you smoke. When I smoked, I could smoke a bowl and still smell fine, but a joint or a blunt would have me smelling real bad, breath and everything. Idk why though, just something I noticed
I think it's oil that absorbs and holds onto the smell. Some people are naturally oilier than others. If your clothes are fresh and clean and you have recently showered the smell doesn't stick around, that's for sure. You don't have to be dirty for it to stick, the natural skin oil people have can hold onto it.
Items of clothing like jackets that aren't washed everytime you wear them hold onto the smell more because of this.
My guy if you leave a goddamn skunk trail behind you I will ask you to leave
But they take forever to go into effect.
Inhaling starts it right away. :)
I don’t think anyone here taking issue with this take misunderstood the intention. If someone is canvassing, it will be off-putting to the locals if they smell. If you have someone watching your back at a protest, you want their reaction speed up and their attention as sharp as can be.
All that said, I have a comrade who, if they are not a bit high, their attention and reaction times are worse because of their chronic pain. They often stay home from protests because they feel like a burden, but they are an excellent comrade and I’m not about to deny them a ride if and when they wanna come. They deserve a place along our side to fight for themself.
Me, meanwhile, I’m stone cold sober since 2017. But if I don’t have some amphetamines in me I’m not gonna be on the top of my game either. The only time people question whether I’m sober is when I’m sober. ADHD’s weird like that. Even though I’m dependent on a drug to function, I have never been told once that my medication was inappropriate for organizing purposes.
I do take your point though, this messaging is excluding to people like you and your comrade.
Acknowledging that’s pretty much all I want :rosa-salute:
I'll tell you straight up, this discourse is a psy-op. I don't trust anyone who brings this up. Hell, they aren't trusting people will do basic shit like "showering" so it's definitely reciprocal. Maybe there is a space somewhere for a drug-related struggle session, but it's not when a movement is barely there and barely nascent.
Seems like an issue that can and should be addressed internally for most affinity groups. As it stands, the way people address that is probably gonna contain some ableism or addiction stigma, but that conversation doesn’t have to be tied to this one
Lol I recall a pretty recent struggle session on here literally about not showering, so idk there's probably something to it
Ima say it now, if I offer a person a drug or a drink and they don't at least attempt to sip or smoke or zip what I offered I fundamentaly won't trust them. Unless they have a good medical reason :fidel-cool:
No I will not explain. Edit: damn it you made me explain because I felt bad it's about mutual trust and sharing a moment of shared food, drug, drink.
Pro choice unless someone chooses not to take the drugs I offer them.
Very cool.
Low key I kinda feel like people think I’m a fed when I don’t take offered weed, I used to smoke but it really doesn’t vibe with my mental illness, but at the same time I don’t exactly want to give my mentall illness life story to a person I just met
:this: Just let people have their preferences and if they’re assholes or acting erratically then you can address that instead of doing lifestyle policing
Here I was thinking that getting clean meant people would trust me again. Oops 🥴
thats a medical issue, Id offer your camomile tea no lemon tho.
No I 100% agree. Like if you have a good reason, even just “it doesn’t agree with me” that’s fine. But if you just dislike intoxicants, I do not trust you.
What I love intoxicants so much that I’ll ruin my life if I participate in them? Do I have to tell you that or can I just be like, “I’m fine”?
thats a medical issue so we drinkin tea its about sharing a moment of trust. :meow-bounce:
Listen I know not everyone can get down with Egyptian Myrrh rituals spanning 14 hour sessions. :deeper-sadness:
Gonna be hard organizing with most Muslims, importance of that will depend on where you live I guess :malcolm-checks:
I'd offer them something that's not alcohol as that is a good reason in the past opium and hash were acceptable. But also being religious is fine at least drink tea with me. 😅
ive only ever knocked on doors while drunk and or stoned and honestly it only made me more efficient and powerful
if a crunk goblin knocked on my door I'd do whatever they told me
Lmao the fact that this is a struggle session is peak chapo.chat never change
Someone's ability to organize should be based on their record within the organization they're working with. If drugs are interfering with their ability to help effectively then they should try helping in different ways or using the time they would be helping to fix the issue. Saying that someone who does drugs can't be a comrade is counter-productive. Revolution will always require the support of those labeled dregs and removed of society. People who work well within the current system aren't going to want to change it. Addiction can be one expression of a hate for this capitalist society, and working towards a better future can focus that hate into something productive, opening the door for sobriety.
As long as the person doesn't bear enormous responsibility we shouldn't be policing the way people live their lives. As long as they are effective within the org and aren't harmful to those around them outside of it they should be aloud to live their lives freely. Categorical no drug rules can also allow ableism to seep into the movement, which has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread.
I think there is a kernel of a conversation to have in this statement, but it is hard to have it in a country that has the attitude the US has about drugs and drug users.
