It's hell.
Shit yeah. I remember getting everything from the cricket bat to the hammer as a kid, scared the living shit out of me to even think about dad coming home.
We have three now and no corporal punishment, way better behaved than I was as a kid because of it. Way less spooked about everything too.
Yeah, that was for maths. Had to put our hands on a bedpost and get the question right before it got to our fingers. Not sure dad ever hit hard enough to hurt, but it scared the fuck out of me for the rest of my life. The cricket bat was just general misbehaving though, and it fucking killed.
Yeah, but as OP said, this shit was so fucking normalised when I was a kid. Dirt poor area, a dad who lost his abusive dad young, it all makes sense now. I'm just glad as a dad myself the tide on this shit has turned somewhat. I could never imagine raising a hand to my kids, let alone that torture.
My dad once made me sit down next to him while he napped. He said I better learn the multiplication tables in front of me before he woke up, or I’d get the belt.
What the fuck is with dads and maths? I was always pretty shit at maths after that shit, glad to know his stupid method didn't work. Sorry to hear comrade.
Nah, my dad was a joiner. Old school, hated anyone who brought a calculator along to the job site. Dumb as bricks in most ways, but was real good at complex maths either in his head or written on a block of wood. He was just a fucking prick.
Well everything my dad wanted me to do, he fucking sucked at so I just assumed. I'm taller than him, so he wanted me to play basketball. Guess how many games he ever played? Or even came to while he was pressuring me?
Yeah, that's the worst. Verbal is just as bad - shit scars for life. The politics and abuse thing is weird in Australia. See, we have two main parties - the 'Liberal' party, who are our right-wing conservative assholes, and the 'Labor' party, who are ostensibly our left wing party born out of union movements (they're now basically centre-right and almost as fashy as the Liberals). Thing is, for us, the working class poor still tend to vote 'left' (i.e. Labor) - my dad always hated the Liberal party and everything it stood for. There's a weird macho 'bloke'-ness to the Labor party that results in abusive pricks all round.
Yeah - best thing about having kids myself is that I get a chance to break that chain now. I'm full time dad, get to spend all day with them while the partner works - it's literally the best. The biggest fear before they came along was that I'd snap just like he did; just had to keep reminding myself I'm better than he is.
my dad used to yank me out of bed if i didnt wake up right on the dot. this included one time while i was recovering from surgery.
That shit is rough and I'm real sorry to hear it. Stronger together though comrade. We can build a better world.
Hiya. Kindergarten teacher here, tips on not traumatizing your children:
Don't punish them. This one is counter intuitive. If they do something dumb, draw a line between their actions and the natural consequence. "When you stole his toy he hit you." "When you scream, it wakes up your little brother." "Sometimes when you tip in your chair, you'll fall down like that." You can also preemptively warn them. "If you keep following her, she might get mad at you." "That furniture is pretty wobbly, it could fall over."
don't yell at them. when you yell at them you're modifying their behaviour temporarily through fear, and possibly creating a habit of fear. The only time I yell at kids is if their safety is at risk. "Stop right there! Do not go onto the highway!" Again, you can reason with kids and in the long run it will work better.
let kids get hurt. if they get hurt climbing or get hit annoying other kids they're learning natural consequences, learning risk assessment, and learning social skills.
warn kids before you touch them. the best is to ask, "can I touch you?" But if it's not really a choice, instead give them warning. "I am going to pick you up now." This gives them a sense of security and autonomy.
use time outs sparingly. dont use them as punishments. They're more for separating a kid from a negative stimulus. So like, if a kid is really mad at another kid (as in cannot calm down around them), or really wants to so something dangerous, move them to another space where that kid or thing isn't in front of them. A mirror and some cushions are helpful in timeout to calm down. Do not threaten time outs, but do warn them. "I'm going to pick you up and move you somewhere calm now."
Fuck yes, all of this. This is how my partner and I decided we would raise our kids and it's just so much easier and less stressful. Also, its great to know they might grow up to be less fucked than me, which is a bonus.
Thank you! I do my best to not raise my voice. But that’s an issue I am working out from the way I was raised.
We normally ask permission or tell him what we are doing, Imma try to be more consistent about that!
We basically reserve time outs for when he was throwing punches (which he learned in daycare and has since stopped). Sometimes I put him on time out so he calms down; but I’ve been having more success with giving him positive attention.
I like to let him explore and figure things out even if he gets hurt. I at least warn him of what will happen.
I would explain the rattlesnake rules up front every time we go outside. At younger ages, if they broke a rattlesnake rule I'd pick them up and move them "I'm going to pick you up because snakes are dangerous."
Once they can reason (between 2 and 4 yo), instead of just moving them, I'd bring them inside and set them up with a different game, something still fun like legos, k'nex, tracing... as I did that I'd say "you weren't staying safe, so we're going to play a game I know you'll play safely." Kids also respond well to positive framings, so instead of saying "dont look under rocks" I'd say "next time, leave rocks be."
Is that helpful?
Can you elaborate on this? I'd love to here more about what you've picked up on.
Bodily autonomy is the biggest thing I see. We've been keen on asking our children before we do anything to them, and where it's something we have to do, we talk to them about why we have to do it. Even for toddlers that shit is important.
Corporal punishment is like an inflated version of that for me. Like kids have no ownership at all over their bodies and actions. It shows in heaps of forms - wrenching a child by the arms, twisting their ears, a snack on the butt for being naughty, locking them away during a tantrum. Full abuse is just a step away from any of these, but a lot of these are socially acceptable.
Basically, it's when a 'punishment' doesn't at all match the infraction. We'd call it unjust for an adult, but for kids it's seen as 'how they learn'
Even well meaning, nice, and educated people will be like “it’s okay to spank your kids”, or will give you these wild hypotheticals that, with proper proactive parenting, you’d have less chances of running into it.
I mean politically, the US refused to ratify corporal punishment as bad by the U.N a few years ago. Corporal punishment was still a thing in various school systems in the early aughts. Cops and School security will hurt children. The way we parent is often an expression of our economic background, with people that are better off, being able to have resources for therapy and counseling. Also with the way children were treated as “seen not heard” and discipline was so bad, when I was growing up. It’s pretty wild.
I was in elementary school back in 1980 and I remember our male gym "teacher" grabbing two boys each by their hair and knocking their heads together. Monstrous. Right before having 8 year olds pick teams, which was brutal for the kids picked last. This was in the US, public school in NY.
Another random thought: the day I realized my dad was a giant coward, I stopped fearing him forever.
Hitting kids as punishment is hella lame.
It doesn't really work as a deterrent and there's a good chance it'll just fuck em' up on some level.
Cool story, my dad never had to hit me because he hit my brothers which terrified me into ever acting out!
I used to have nightmares of protecting my brother from my dad.
Even from a strictly monstrous perspective, hitting your children is still monumentally stupid. It only works until they're old enough to hit back. And believe me: they will hit back, and a youth in their prime is gonna murk an alcoholic smoker with a dad bod.
All it teaches is that strength wins. You aren't gonna be strong forever, and they're gonna be stronger for longer because that's how time works. And you've also potentially created another monster. I'm glad I escaped that cycle. My kids' biggest fear right now is that I won't let them play outside if they don't keep their masks on.
