Permanently Deleted
Spread that Beerian inherently regulated system all over my bod I'm so ready for homeostasis
hello. I wish they would make "a promise to the dead" freely available.
Are we talking the Cybersyn that was conceptualized or the Cybersyn that was actually built? In both cases not really, it was meant as a coordinating and regulating system for the entire (state-run) economy, not just a string of warehouses with an e-commerce front-end. While amazon does some amazing adaptive planning with neural nets they aren't really planning on a grander scope than putting the maximum amount of assorted parcels in a truck. It's for sure an exceedingly complex supply chain that has to be more adaptively navigated than thoroughly planned, but Cybersyn was trying to do that for all of the things - and make these processes steerable towards any desired goal. Of course, with only like 400 telex machines and one ibm mainframe, they didn't exactly meet these goals within the 2 years before the coup. For all it's shortcommings (and in part because of them), Cybersyn was still successfully utilized to break a CIA-instigated trucker strike by diverting resources from striking companies towards those without strikes, so... Make of that what you will.
Not so much, it wasn't concerned at all with consumer use cases, only with production and distribution. So, if it had succeeded, farms and factories would've had Cybersyn terminals to report production. This was a huge deal at the time, far more important than most people realize, and for many reasons. While one can find early Soviet theoretical writings favorably applicable to Cybersyn-related concepts post hoc, by the 1960s, the Russian bureaucracy had begun to ossify and nobody wanted to lose their jerb to a computer, so anything that might've been adjacent or complimentary to what Chile was attempting would've been banned outright. So along comes Chile, with some of the largest copper reserves in the hemisphere, copper essential to the new postwar electronic order, and says "Let's use these newfangled computers to do some really good Communisms!" and then they didn't fuck around, they started hiring some of the most prestigious theorists and engineers in the world at the time, while Allende was the first to break Cuba's political isolation by hosting Fidel Castro in Chile. Even hosting Castro alone could've gotten the country coup'd, but Nixon's administration was aware of Cybernsyn. It was not a secret project. It did, however, scare the absolute shit out of a lot of people in the U.S. So not only did Allende get coup'd, but the fledgling Cybersyn network was completely destroyed, collages ransacked for documents, and researchers jailed and tortured. All of this after several noted CIA/imperialist rags in Chile had spent months denouncing Cybersyn as some kind of sci-fi totalitarianism. Thereafter, Chile's economy under Pinochet was remade into one which was not merely Capitalist, but Neoliberal Platinum Deluxe.
By comparing it to Amazon I meant the tracking devices that workers in warehouses wear to monitor efficiency. I was talking out of my ass, you obviously know more about it than me. The cybersyn room does give me vibes from the original rollerball movie tho.
Maybe Chile should have a taste of Juche necromancy to revive him for advisory purposes
To be fair, it's still technically electoralist, but I think electoralism can succeed in the Global South, as shown in Venezuela
It depends. Chavez had the support of a lot of the soldiers and police. I'd assume Chile's military is quite right wing, as their police definitely are.
you can assume that for any country tbh, venezuela is definitely a huge exception
I don't follow Chilean politics at all, I have no idea how their system works. Is this an actual possibility?
Chilean here. Long answer: What its important to understand is that the chilean communist party is not really a big electoral force, until very very recently they got about 5% ob the presidential vote. But now they are part of the Nueva Mayoria, a coalition that got over 40% of the vote in the last election and as Concertación (Previous coalition that didnt include the comunist party) won the presidency the most times since the reinstauration of democracy. There is some respectable left and center left vote in the country BUT the coalition can only win if the center and center-rigth portions of the coalition decide the support them. The problem is that the more right wing parts of the coalition are already saying that they wont support a comunist candidate. I can see Jadue winning but if people from his own coalition are against him is going to be very hard. I do believe he can win a big part of the "nonpolitical but angry at the system" vote
Short answer: Yes if the centrists dont fuck around
Short answer: Yes if the centrists dont fuck around
Oh so just the perpetual reason we can't have nice things.
I mean Im still hopeful, A year ago Jadue was justa random mayor (His city is bigger than Buttigieg even tho Chile is 20 times smaller than the US lol) and now he is the front runner. The backlash agaisnt the right wing since the protest is real and will hurt any of his main rivals. The only major problem is the is a ton of people that wont vote for him just because he is a communist. The election is in a year and a lot can change, hopefully for the better :)
is he an actual communist or is it just like with PCdoB here in brazil?
erosandmagic and bamboo68 dissect it in a thread in this post better that I could explain. I can tell you that while you could consider Jadue himself a communist he has made it clear that if the chilean communist party comes to power in Chile it will by as a part of a coalition, not as an independent entity, and currently their coalition has some center and centerright parties so I dont think he would run on an actual communist agenda. It would still be a better agenda by far than any other politician.
Whats the deal with PCdoB? Im not very familiar with them.
i see. i'm cool with that, as long as their end goal is to establish socialism at some point (i can understand reform in the short or even medium term, using the government's tools to increase popularity of the communists, to mobilize people, etc)
PCdoB's history is a bit complicated, but the gist of it is that they're at very best reformists today, unlike PCB, which is an actual communist party (the original one, from the 20s and still going, albeit with a very small amount of members)
Interesting, thanks for the reply. Follow up: do you know what caused them to jump from like 5% of the vote to polling at 20%? Did it have to do with the big protests in the last year?
Yes, it did have a lot to do with the protests. Before october, as a mayor he was very well liked in his city, one of the politicians in the country with the best favorability ratings. He implemented succesful policies to give housing and medicine to people. But he was still a "small city mayor". No one would consider him a a posible presidential candidates, and meanwhile the politicans with the best polling as a candidate were hard right wingers. Along came the protest and there is a huge backlash against the right wing, most right wingers took a popularity hit, but the traditional center and center-left parties couldnt capitalize from the protests because they are seen as complicit in this neoliberal system (20 years in power and didnt changed anything), so there was a vacuum for an "antisystem outsider candidate" and Jadue, who was already very liked started jumping up the polls.
So no. Got it. FR though, thanks for the effort-post; are there any English language sources I can read about this?
So no
:(
About the sources most of what I have wrote I got from discusing politics in the dinner with my family (We fight a lot in the dinners lol) and we all use sources in spanish :/
There was a chapo post a long time ago about how Che visited Allende in Chile and gave a speech to Allende supporters where he asked something like, "Are you doing enough to support the socialist revolution in Chile?" and the crowd yelled, "¡Sì!" and Che said, "No, you aren't. You're all liberals. None of you are free from liberalism." I might be paraphrasing heavily but Che ended up being correct, as tankies do.
Oh so it was Castro not Che. Yeah, he could smell the glowies when he went to Chile.
Fuck Lavín, the guy was a Pinochet suporter during the dictatorship and one of the Chicago Boys (chilean economists that went to Chicago to study under Milton Friedman and later brought neoliberalism to Chile), and now he is trying to sell himself as a "social democrat" that is not really right wing.
I mean they are onviously not prepared to govern the country, as that has not been something they really were in the running for, but their aesthetic and vernacular for sure suggest to me they are not social democrats but marxists. The parties in their little interantional left congress suck but I don't see any indication they themselves do.
They may well be act as socdems as its definitey the easier path to go, and an ML party would need to form a more moderate coalition to govern anyways, but id say the movement around the party is radical and the ideals of the party seem to be as well, even if a lot of it is just college kids.
