EDIT: Even though we're dunking on a few of these people, The Toxic Leftist isn't a good account either. They describe themselves as a "rightwing leftist".
She de-legitimizes herself through the way she interacts with and uses power. She is not serious about trying to form any kind of disruptive coalition within the party ala the Freedom Caucus, and she isn't even good at 'saying the right message' anymore.
I was totally on board with her when she was first elected. I ignored the pessimistic cries of the communists, but once again, they were correct.
Night and day after the pelosi sit in
like they showed her the undoctored zappruder film or sth
It’s true that a lot of leftists are still pathetically obsessed with her because they felt “betrayed”. After Obama and Bernie, you should realize by now that all these people in federal politics are there because they’ve passed the ghoul test. There shouldn’t be any betrayal because you shouldn’t have trusted them now.
AOC as a symbol is a threat to fringe ideologies who see any engagement with electoral politics as necessarily impotent and morally bankrupt
AOC as a person is a threat to everyone. And politicians who do engage with liberal electoral politics are important and morally bankrupt
Why won't twitter just die? Please god it's so terrible.
I encourage everybody here to start posting on mastodon under the theory that their personality & wit could be an attractant or reason to stay for refugees from twitter
I'm basically more sympathetic to AOC than the average person here because she needs a fuck ton of reinforcements and they ain't comin. After a half decade she has probably realized that.
Maybe there'll come a day where she's like a Kerensky figure opposed to some viable left wing power structure but we are very far from that.
This comment is a struggle session waiting to happen, and far be it from me to start it, but is she not already opposing left power by reinforcing American imperialism? She falls in line WRT China, Venezuela, Russia, etc.
And domestically, she’s a scab: Rail Workers Betrayed By Biden & The “Squad”
This comment is a struggle session waiting to happen, and far be it from me to start it
I'm just happy to be here. Hi Mom! Look at me! I'm here at the start of the new Hexbear Struggle Session! <3
Well even domestically, I really can't see AOC ever supporting prominent leftist groups that contradict the state dept line on the Bad Countries:tm:.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but I do think if she were surrounded by a critical mass of demsocs or demsoc-appearing people she would have the confidence to do that. It isn't without historical precedent.
So she will just bend to whatever prevailing wind is blowing? That isn't something to be respected.
Well she's on the reform side of reform vs. revolution. And if you want to be viable as a reformer you're gonna have to do that to some degree. It comes with the territory. It's fine if you think it isn't worth doing.
She’s not on either side of socialism, because she’s not a socialist at all. AOC is to the right of Sanders, and Sanders isn’t a socialist, either: he’s a social safety net liberal. Neither of them are calling for the abolition of private ownership of the means of production.
It's fine if you think it isn't worth doing.
This is exactly what Lenin said to Kautsky. /s
If she ever was a leftist she is now a sell out who deserves nothing but derision. More likely she is just a "hip" young crypto-fascist who adopted leftist rhetoric to fool the kids and the politically illiterate to vote in the hope that the evil old white men will give up power willingly.
It's not anything to be respected, you're right. But it's worth noting that "will bend to the prevailing wind" is different than "dyed in the wool fascist who will actively pursue the worst possible path" or even "conservative Democrat who will resist good things that are broadly popular among Democrats."
At least with a fascist you know where you stand. A liberal like AOC will do things just as heinous as any fascist and for the same reasons but will pretend they regret it. All non fascist members of the USA government are self interested ghouls with little to no ideological convictions. They are puppets of the fascists and do whatever gets them voted. "Conservative democrats" are just crypto-fascists.
Real
energy. It ain't happening at the ballot box
Any pol that lacked reinforcements can just accept the L and fuck off rather than become a ghoul.
AOC isn't a socialist and never was, she's been an NGO and NatSec "progressive" the entire time and has acted in a very consistently inconsistent way you'd expect from that.
Are you saying she's getting peer pressured into supporting genocide?
Doubtful, I assume whatever is being held over her head is more substantial than that.
What could possibly be "held over her head" that she would consider important enough to support genocide over and not also make her worthy of being thrown into a pit beforehand?
Few possibilities:
- some kind of blackmail, thing that could ruin her political career
- threat from dem leadership or donors to expel from party or devote massive resources to primarying her
- threat from dem leadership to kick her off various committees and completely block her from any she might be in line for
- actual death threat from the MIC
Idk your "throw in the pit" threshold so whatever. Or maybe that's just who she is.
Supporting the murdering 100 babies a day in exchange for a cushy job.
“Oh no my jaw and both arms broke in an accident right before the hearing, guess I won’t be able to agree to the orphan murdering like I was supposed to. Sorry!” - a reasonable strategy
The MIC is evil by design but they're not threatening to murder AOC. A politician who gives them everything they want. Someone like Michael Hastings, maybe, but AOC?
She gives them everything they want because of the threat? Your ordering of events doesn't make sense.
There is no threat, because she is no threat. She's a run of the mill lib who goes along to get along. This is all very silly.
I don't assume anything is being held over her, progressives and dem socs are just like that.
She might have to... get a real job!
DUN-DUN-DUNNNN!
Let's be real, no one is holding anything over AOC other than her future career prospects as a well paid and 'important' ghoul.
I assume the calculus she is running is that she can help people more as a demsoc house rep than as some random person
I'm sympathetic to this because I work in tech so have to self-censor on palestine if I don't want to get fired. A google engineer was fired just this past week for disrupting a tech conference about this. Doctors I know also have to self-censor or their program will fire them.
she can help people more as a demsoc house rep than as some random person
Except she hasn't meaningfully done so that I'm aware of, while giving increasing cover and support to an evermore rightwing, oppressive, imperialist and generally bloodthirsty status quo. If you're an elected representative that has to self-censor to the degree that you can't even advocate for your supposed positions, never mind take meaningful actions towards them then you're not 'hiding your power level' or whatever, you're just working for the enemy.
But believe whatever you want. We already spend far too much time on 'is AOC good/evil' silliness to be honest.
reinforcements
fr who cares if she's hiding her power level or if she really believes in all the genocides she's endorsing, none of matters if we're not replacing the rest of congress.
It’s funny, because the very first interview AOC did on leftist internet platform was with Jimmy Dore back in 2017 when she started her campaign. It was her first major exposure to the online left.
How things have changed. Or rather, how little things have changed.
Saying that he calls himself a historian of Cuba is a bit misleading. Andres Piertierra received a bachelors degree for Marxist Historiography from the University of Havana, Cuba. He has a history degree from the University of Havana. If having a history degree from a Cuban university doesn't qualify one to a be a historian of Cuba, then what does?
This is his photo in the 2012-2013 graduates book on the University of Havana website.
Show
https://www.uh.cu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/libro-de-graduados-2012-2013.pdf
That’s quite literally what he wrote on his twitter page lol
Show
Despite studying Marxist Historiography, he could have fooled me with the questionable statements he’s made on social media in the past. This isn’t me just bashing him out of the blue. Why are you defending him?
being a historian doesn't automatically mean they have good takes?
In this case, unfortunately not. I forgot to mention that he also bashes "tankies" and PSL too if you look it up on twitter.
Why are you defending him?
"This guy is in fact a historian of Cuba" is not a defense, it's a correction.
Sorry, if you call yourself a historian of Cuba, but you post reactionary, anti-communist takes, than I'd argue your title and credentials have a right to be called into question especially if you defend SOSCuba protesters and bash "tankies" and PSL.
Bad politics don't mean someone lacks knowledge about a subject. There are countless examples of knowledgeable people who have bad politics for material or social reasons. It's a mistake to think "if only this person read one more book they'd have better takes."
You made a mistake (thinking this guy was exaggerating his credentials) and are doubling down instead of acknowledging it.
Andres Piertierra received a bachelors degree for Marxist Historiography from the University of Havana, Cuba. He has a history degree from the University of Havana. If having a history degree from a Cuban university doesn't qualify one to a be a historian of Cuba, then what does?
Jokey joke comrade.
But if I had a degree in the "History of Lego" from a college in the USA, that wouldn't make me an American Historian would it?
He also defended those protesters from July 2021 that led to that whole SOSCuba thing, so sorry if I don’t take him seriously.
Someone please tell me that the ice cream emoji isn't a Biden thing and that this person just likes ice cream.
You can physically see the soul leaving AOC's body if you look away from the leftmost picture
I dont trust anyone who spends any energy rallying for Julian Assange
idk, I'm trying my best to kill it 
