I've heard this guy being recommended multiple times, it's a shame bc some of his analysis may have some value, but this is inexusible amounts of stupidpol, he has many other endorsements of transphobia and homophbia on his twitter and it's always through the lens of saying gender essentialism is the materialist stance (more dunks in comments)
"Correct anti-teleological lines of Dawkins"
Is he talking about Dick Dawkins the famous Islamophobe? Cause if so :doubt:
Why are people so fucking weird about gender? It literally does not fucking matter, but everyone's obsessed with genitals and who you're fucking. It's so goddamn weird.
Because they’re bigots obsessed with controlling other people’s bodies. If they’re a self-proclaimed marxist, then they also at this point lack the ability to synthesize new information through a coherent materialist lense (if they ever had it to begin with).
If you’re talking over marginalized people to invalidate their existence, you lost the plot a long time ago. The information is all there now for someone who wants to do the work.
I appear to have been blocked by a Marxism Leninism group. I suspect that my offence was to have criticised Stonewall and the LGBT movement as bourgeois.
could make another post just from this banger from him
But I think that a plausible economic argument can be made for one of his key arguments – that the political gay movement expresses middle class and upper class interests. I will in this post try to pull together an argument to this effect. I will focus on the mean class position of homosexual men, and show that this puts them in the top 10% of the population, and that this economic position is not incidental, but is closely connected with the gay male mode of life. Note the specificity, it does not apply to Lesbians.
The conclusion from the evidence so far is that the gay marriage movement is fundamentally conservative, aimed at the securing of relatively privileged property ownership and it makes the relative position of women in society slightly worse
that's weird but i remember some discourse about how marriage equality is nice but is kinda less important than housing and employment protections that we do not have and did not get.
position of women in society slightly worse
:warf-wtf:
Why are people so fucking weird about this? What :brainworms: drive perfectly ordinary, reasonable people to come up with all kinds of twisty sophistry to try to justify being weird about queer people?
it was in new york city. new york city is where money is except harlem, which is where poverty and black people are. all LGBTQs are white. it's simple material analysis.
So this guy has literally nothing but horribly awful takes on all levels but he once talked about using computers in socialism so people keep talking about him?
I mean, fuck, literally siding with the British imperialists against Irish independence? I know people make arguments about how some leftists are stuck in the past socially and thats why transphobes arent entirely exorcised, but I really dont get how you would reckon with siding with like the most classic imperialist nation in a struggle for independence and self determination.
Daniel Dennet
"Free Will" is the most boring fucking question. Its' non-falsifiable who who even cares?
privileged white dudes who have to come up with something to be personally upset about because they don’t give a fuck about marginalized people
Before social media existed for us to spend time being mad and upset about people we have no intention of interacting with, all there was to waste time with was becoming mad and upset over philosophical conundrums that will never be proven one way or the other.
Sounds like someone needs a shot in the cock.
I'll be here all night.
Yeah hakim recommends him sometimes. I have towards a new socialism on my reading list and I think I may have even read the first chapter but he’s been consistently a ding dong about stuff like this from what I’ve seen and heard
I'm reading it now and it's very compelling, not noticing any of these brainworms leaking through (though that may be because of his co-author Cottrell keeping him in check).
Really fucking sucks when someone who actually does have some decent cybernetic adjacent ideas about modern socialism is such a reactionary moron.
Yeah also probably helps it’s specifically about economic issues
Really fucking sucks when someone who actually does have some decent cybernetic adjacent ideas about modern socialism is such a reactionary moron.
:yea:
It's not even about economic issues, just what data would be needed for running a central planning system and the algorithms and data structures needed to iteratively compute labor value. They also go into a sort of labor token economy and how it would work within the planning system (I do actually think they are into something with some of that, at least using a labor token system in a transitional stage of communism).
Lol I just meant it’d be weird for him to be like “and this algorithm can keep track of the bread production for the populace, ok now let me to tel you about the trans agenda…!”
The subject matter probably provides less space than say an analysis of “the left” in America would. And well apparently he has published some works about lgbt people passed off as that kind of analysis
The parts you’re talking about def sound interesting tho. I need to get back around to reading it I think I even have the pdf somewhere
Here's a passage from the opening of the book that's kinda sus:
All political class struggle requires both a class-conscious leadership and a program of demands around which the class can be united. So far, perhaps the most important issue in women’s political struggle has been the struggle over abortion rights. So long as the domestic mode of production persists, control over fertility is essential to women who wish to control their own labour time.
The struggle of women as a class against domestic exploitation can take on a revolutionary character only if its objective becomes the replacement of the domestic economy by more advanced forms of production relations. Unless there is persistent propaganda for alternative ways for people to live together, prepare food, care for children and provide each other with emotional support, it will not be possible to raise the contradiction between men and women out of personal politics up to the level of political class struggle. In this sense we can view the contradiction between men and women as still being a suppressed or latent contradiction in British politics.
We believe that women’s struggles can best be given a revolutionary content by putting forward a concrete image of a communal way of life that can supplant the present day patriarchal family.
I think they're just saying that abortion rights are important, but they aren't revolutionary because they don't necessarily change the economic relationships that perpetuate the domestic economy? It does kinda read as "abortion isn't that big of an issue", but it's worded in a way that still says it's important.
But yeah, chapter 12 is basically the only chapter that deals directly with this stuff. The rest is just planning system algorithms and charts.
Unless there is persistent propaganda for alternative ways for people to live together, prepare food, care for children and provide each other with emotional support, it will not be possible to raise the contradiction between men and women out of personal politics up to the level of political class struggle. In this sense we can view the contradiction between men and women as still being a suppressed or latent contradiction in British politics.
This seems absolutely correct to me, and I have absolutely no fucking idea how someone can write this and also be against "gender ideology" when it specifically pushes propaganda for alternative ways for people to live together, it could do a lot more of that if we really pushed it to.
Feels to me like they're on the right track but with some brainworms mixed in. If they can be dewormed there's something of value here.
View it in the lens of someone who is hardline Bioessentialist in the 70s feminist (sub)tradition and you see the sus begin to seep out.
Yeah, which is why I'm so befuddled by this shit that he's on right now. Maybe the brainworms developed after the 90s?
Still would recommend reading TaNS, but definitely keep in mind his current bigotry. I haven't seen it pop up really, but maybe I'm missing something. Overall the book is useful as a tool for looking at possible systems for maintaining a socialist project with technology.
I wonder what he thinks of Cuba's treatment of lgbt and specifically trans people these days. Does he believe Cuba is desperately being taken over by bourgeoise ideology? What does he think their new family legislation is and who the driving forces behind it were?
This is why it is so vital to kill your heroes. If someone has useful ideas or information then take it without making apologies for the person.
I used to warn people about his bullshit while recommending him, but it started a big struggle session over if it was relevant to mention so I was turned off.
Shaun voice: "D'yeh think maybe different parts of a person's ideology are connected somehow?"
Yeah, look, I did a liberalism, and should have embraced TC69 thought.
I would simply name that and then report anyone upset that you mentioned he was a transphobic nonce.
I think it was before the Great Transphobe Purge of Hexbear.
And also despite being extremely online I'm actually pretty conflict-averse and want to think the best of everyone on this site (I'm constantly wondering dumb things like "maybe the Gonzalists are ok, once you get past the hero-worship." and "We're too mean to patsocs, they have a lot of brainworms to get past.(we are not)") I would make a terrible mod.
Gender is CIA in that it's a psyop to make people super fucking reactionary about things that don't even remotely affect them. Abolish gender, and also abolish this Cockshitt
You all pissed on her grave, but her ghost will be pissing on the UK's for far longer.
Thank God hexbear is finally bringing this up. Paul Cockshott is a proud transphobe of the British TERF variety and has been for years. He's harassed people on Facebook, including people I personally know and he's just so haughty and rude about it. Yet I've seen his name come up often here as someone with great ideas regarding socialism and supply chains, probably without the poster realizing how much of a TERF he is.
He might have some great ideas for how to implement socialist economic policy, but the man himself is just such a goofy transphobe. I mean Marx and Engels also had personally questionable views, but they didn't announce most of them, and they were European white men in the 1850s. You have to go digging through their private letters to find the bigotry. Paul Cockshott publicly declares himself a TERF in 2022 without an ounce of shame.
He’s harassed people on Facebook, including people I personally know and he’s just so haughty and rude about it.
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"Gender Identity Politics is hurting the Left!"
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Spends ten hours a day terminally online shit-posting about gender identity
Real :who-did-this: moment.
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I guess I also have some doubt about how worthwhile his ideas are. He's niche for a reason. Frankly that's my own bias talking and I doubt I'll get over it. Cockshott has personally harassed and misgendered friends of mine.
I will say, I read TANS before knowing about his other, horrid views. I think if I hadn't read TANS before Capital vol 1, I would have really struggled a lot more with understanding socially necessary labor time and other concepts. I have yet to find another text that explains how economic planning would work under socialism that is also accessible. That said, the book is almost 30 years old, there has to be SOMEONE out there who could write a similar text and incorporate newer ideas and information.
I left out the fact that this guy is Scottish so it’s extra cringe that’s he’s singleing out the USA as if they are exporting gays to terf island / terf island leftist groups
Apparently I pose a huge threat to the cohesion of the Left.
Also, read the Gender Accelerationist Manifesto.
I'm going to find a version that doesn't have eye-searing font decisions.
I just use the anarchist library for epubs, it's also on Libcom, and in spanish.
