Why yes I do think workers should own the means of production thanks for asking
I think it's funny that they think this is some kind of own.
Like yea I believe everyone deserves access to tools for free.
A library but you can borrow literally everything is the simplest way to explain communal property
And you wouldn't have to store it the 98% of the time you're not using it and they wouldn't have to use a bunch of child labor to 999x the amount of tools necessary for people not using it 98% of the time. If you really really wanted your own tools you could, but the grand majority just sit there.
I like tool libraries. I still have my own drill and small things, but I get access to specialist tools (or just bulky stuff like table saws) without having to cart it around and store it.
The number of predatory credit options for tradesmens' tools is astounding. I would fully support tool debt relief, even on the premise of basic fairness, even before my ideological opposition to debts and capitalism.
I support forgiving $10k in personal loans on tools for people making under $125k, sure why not
Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha?
it's because them dang liberals hate all the "blue collar" workers
Oh what's next, medical debt forgiveness? Maybe people deserve food too, because you need it to work? 🙄
If the Democrats were actually cool they would take all these jubilee suggestions and actually implement them all, maybe even name each bill after the fash that post them.
They would be in power for a generation if they wanted it.
I don't understand why car mechanics (for example) have to buy and move their own tools in and out of car shops when they work somewhere.
Like if you have a favorite wrench, fine bring it, but on reddit's justrolledintotheshop people post them hauling huge cabinets like this out of shops when they quit, and having to pay for hauling it away.
Like why haven't they realized this is bullshit? I don't have to buy my own switches and routers for a company and take them with me when I join/leave a job
Right but if you have 5 mechanics, you'd have 5 stations with full sets of tools, assigned to each person. Give them a key to their cabinets, but when they quit they have to give the key back.
It's literally only because the owners don't want to pay for tools and they have normalized it.
Yeah it's called capitalism.
Mechanics/car guys are pretty conservative and chucked. It's the reason i lost interests in cars.
You get paid by the book hour. Brake job says 2hrs. If you get it done in 30mins you get the 2hr pay. It's all rusted to shit and takes 5 hours than you get two. A lot of times the book will underestimate the hours needed so you always get screwed on some jobs. If you are at a stealership as a mechanic, warranty hrs is any where from a 1/4 to 3/4 an book hr. Some brands pay full rate. In Chicago unions won the pay of 1-1.5x book hours due warranty.
The whole career is explotation. But just like anything if you do it enough and are somewhat smart you can make a good living. But the industry blows through young guys.
Also keep in mind that most of these guys are hustle mind set flaunt your toys consumers. So the whole shop is competing for who has the biggest box and the most tools etc etc. One large snap on tool chest starts at several grand and gets to 10 grand really fast. If you see a huge snap on chest like 6-10ft long that's probably 15-30k. And they only come empty. There's also plenty of times where you get assigned a job where you have to buy a tool joist to get that job done.
i was solicited to work for a worker-owned cooperative which was fairly large (multiple states). it was an employee only stock type of situation with full profit sharing. anyway, there was a shitload of equipment a typical employee might need. a big chunk of the work was especially dangerous: everyone got multiple sets of uniforms and multiple sets of safety gear. if anything safety or safety-adjacent ever broke or seemed clunky, it would be replaced with new, no questions asked, no gruff given. the insurance was incredible and it was in the financial interest of the organization to prevent accidents/injuries for fiscal reasons, and for employee morale. it was one of the only ways they could attract educated and trained talent to the organization.
the same was true to an extent to the tools and equipment, which are heinously expensive in this field. the company provided the best tools and replaced them routinely, but if an employee seemed to break tools more often, they would get coached by others about usage / maintenance because the profits were shared, and if a tool broke at the wrong time it's a hazard. if someone was just an unrepentant asshole about equipment or some other kind of anti-collaborative douche, they would quickly be pushed out and have their shares paid out. apparently that was extremely uncommon, because the pay was stupid high and the work culture was collaborative. people stayed with the company for decades before "retiring" to part time consulting/custom hire.
the capitalist profit motive undermines collaborative organization. when all generated value above material costs are returned to labor, it becomes a team. when generated value above material costs and some ultimately arbitrary valuation of labor returns to management&capital, the organizing principle is every man for himself. it's a paradigm shift that is hard to overstate.
:RIchard-D-Wolff: You love to see when worker co-ops provide the solution :wolff-shining:
If tools are missing or in bad condition it’s the duty of the employer to purchase new ones.
Sounds like you just had cheap employers who refused to spend adequately on tool expenses
I mean one reason is, when they’re communal, they treat them like shit. I know someone who works in a shop and the communal tools are a disaster, shitty assortment of random tools. Whereas they take pride in their own cabinets and try not to lose shit, keep it organized and stuff.
This doesn't happen in my experience (in a machine shop). Sometimes things get broken or misplaced for extended periods of time, but 5S is applied across the shop, most workbenches have semi-standardized foam cut-outs for all the tools, and the tools tend to be kept in good working order for years. It takes a lot of time up-front to organize shit, and periodic maintenance afterward, but when you have what you need where you need it, you get rid of all the shit you don't need, and you use the right tool for the job, shit lasts a lot longer and work is easier.
As long as you don't have super high turnover (indicative of bigger problems), you just need to get everyone invested in it.
The solution to that is pretty simple, everyone gets their own tool cabinet and is responsible for it.
That's how it went in everywhere I have worked and people take care of their stuff because if you don't you are going to need to explain to your tools guy/boss you broke or lost something and then deal with not having the proper tools yourself until the new stuff comes in.
This was all in Europe though but the only reason your tradespeople have to deal with this shit is because employers are too greedy.
A lot of them do realize it's bullshit. It's just a shitty part of the status quo. Anytime I've heard about shops that provide tools it's either a shitty quarter-assed attempt by the boss to look like they care or it's legit a great place and there's basically no turnover so only the most skilled or blood related will get the job.
you know what? fuck it, sure. lots of tradespeople have to buy their own tools, they should get reimbursed for them
A pretty clear step toward socialism tbh, literally working class people owning the tools of their trade (rather than paying rent in the form of interest to financial capitalists)
Edit: I guess it could def be argued a one time handout isn’t really a step toward anything, it’s just some money tunnel shit, in these conditions and this framing in particular. But obviously the spirit of “less barriers to entry” when it comes to earning a living, obviously good
Yes I do believe this too. As a stopgap to help take any momentary burden off of working people and instead take some of the product of their labor back from those capitalists that exploit it through taxes or better yet a mandate that requires employers to provide tools.
A guy buys one snap-on cabinet and now its his whole personality.
That's what I tell people who screech about trade jobs anytime wealth inequality comes up. You're going to be working like a dog for borderline minimum wage until you have your own truck and tools, which is easily going to cost 20-30k even if you're being frugal. Until you can go into business for yourself be prepared to be shit on for years.
I convinced my conservative dad to be even more in favor of debt relief by bringing this up. Tools, trucks, degrees - it's all the same shit, if you need it to do your job then society should provide it to you.
I'm no tax expert, but I'm pretty sure it just falls under itemized deductions and tools alone probably won't be better than a standard deduction. It's probably only a text benefit if the mechanic is self employed.
