You hate work because you are overexploited and not receiving what you deserve while having minimal voice in how your workplace operates
I hate work because I am lazy
We are not the same
the phrase "antiwork" is just stupid. maybe they should have said antijob. antiemployment. antiwork sounds like youre going to starve to death in the woods.
posting and sharing shit like this literally does more harm than good, it's basically reactionary agitprop. like if fascists wanted to make a strawman of an anarchist to mock they would make this image verbatim
seriously think about whether you yourself can be a better communist by being a model worker while organizing your colleagues vs complaining about how it's not fair that you have to have a job and you don't like being told what to do
Came here to post this. Currently, anti-work is only slightly less fantasy than colonizing Mars.
There's definitely a lot of progress that still needs to be made before we make any meaningful speculation about work abolition society-wide.
Thats labor not work, work is labor done as an alternative to deprivation
i have never heard this distinction before. It strikes me as a novel re-definition of the word "work" to mean a specific kind of labor. I previously understood work to be a synonym of "labor". I'm willing to adjust to this new understanding, but I'm not so sure society is going to catch up with you on that lol. Either colloquially or legally.
"wage labor abolition" doesn't really roll off the tongue to be fair
employment abolition. job abolition. a "job" is something you get paid for. not all work is a job. square meet rectangle.
Hell I'd argue that 'work' has a much broader and less defined definition than 'Labor'. Labor is specific to humans (and other animals if you wanna get all animal liberation with your theoretical terminology I guess), whereas pretty much everything in our universe undergoing energy exchange is "working" in one fashion or another.
Plants making energy from sunlight is work, but its not labor. Eating food is your body working but its not labor. etc.
Well, regardless of what words are used, we have to seperate the act of people doing socially necessary things to keep food on everyone's table and all the lights on, and the model of wage labor which makes people do things, some of which is socially necessary, in order to not end up homeless and starving. Based on my own readings, people have delineated it as a labor/work distinction, but what is necessary is to communicate the difference not the specific language
yeah i definitely agree with that. work done for a wage under threat of homelessness is inherently coercive.
the definitions of both words are almost the same. labor might mean harder and more physical work, but it's the same fuckin thing. they should have said anti-job or anti-employment. this is the importance of optics.
No. Labor is just necessary human activity for people to survive. Work/jobs are tying labor to violence/deprivation
work: activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.
labor: work, especially hard physical work.
job: a paid position of regular employment.
you can try to change the definition of word, but it won't work and that optic is half the reason nobody took that "movement" seriously.
We are literally arguing over semantic differences, do you understand the distinction that I am trying to make?
I'm not trying to change definitions, this is how I was taught the distinction.
that optic is half the reason nobody took that “movement” seriously.
No one took communism seriously because we want to decouple labor from work/work from jobs/whatever terminology?
No one took communism seriously
no, anti-work
i work/labor in my garden, it isn't my job. but, i do have to work and labor at my job.
Yes, that is a correct way to use language.
You also "go to work(noun)" and work is "wage labor"
I am also using language correctly.
We are using different terminology because language isn't universal, and we were probably explained the concepts using different language.
I initially tried to correct you because I didn't think you understood the difference between labor/work work/job whatever/whatever.
“wage labor”
a wage like you would earn at, let's say, a job?
Yes, or by going to work. Language is nebulous and imprecise.
Is there a point you are trying to make?
Then, despite the fact that the necessity for work at an individual level can very well be abolished, wouldn't there still be a social need for work, i.e. SOMEONE has to do all that labor otherwise society as a whole would face deprivation?
No, there is a socially necessary need for labor- ei, people doing things. There is not the need for jobs/work, aka labor tied to the threat of violence/deprivation
Agreeded. I would add that we would probably have more hands actually doing stuff rather than having people burn away their gifts, talents, and skills in "Bullshit Jobs" ( RIP Graeber). As such I would imagine that if everyone did stuff that actually mattered we would all probably have to a whole lot less work to do per person, in the sense more hands working together thus making lighter our burden together. By working together, we would all spend less time working.
Sadly it was just kidda out of the clear blue. :stalin-bummed:
Graeber and Michael Brooks both went out of the blue within a couple months of each other near the beginning of COVID right when Bernie lost again. Those were some rough times
remember the op they did to squash r/antiwork when it was ballooning? I do
that shit was fuckin wild. i'm not saying it was their fault, but i do think the moderation team made a mistake by not inscribing an explicitly anarchist line in policy and just letting it be a "big tent" because the allure of being a really popular, important subreddit was too great.
They weren’t ready to deal with feds at all and they also didn’t enforce their own media rules. That mod who went on Fox was an embarrassment and a joke.
Shouldn’t be surprised since they also went out of their way to ban Marxists, AnComs, and Syndicalists in the weeks leading up to the op.
Big progressive tent with everyone except the left.
no kidding, I got banned from there because "tankie = bad" when I pointed out that in the first world, total abolition of work would just mean stealing labor from the third world
inscribing an explicitly anarchist line
they could have, but they wanted it to be popular and that wouldn't have done it. it's smart to do anarchist or commie shit and not label it as such.
They were also actively banning communists and revolutionary anarchists (in particular Syndicalists).
I get not labeling yourself as communist on reddit, but they also were pruning out the leftwing of their community
i wasnt saying an individual shouldnt label themselves as communist/anarchist, but that the movement as a whole shouldnt use those labels. i dont know the full history of that sub except that it turned into a shitshow.
yeah for sure, I’m agreeing with you, sorry if that wasn’t clear. Probably still salty about being banned from there hah
sure it's smart if you just wanna have a forum for people to bitch about their jobs, fine, nothing wrong with that I guess, but then you can't be surprised when you say something radical and the users all want you kicked out.
they opped themselves, truly embarrassing. I'm not anti-work, i'm pro-worker. In the current conditions we should be pushing for 100% employment and worker control of production, not UBI social imperialist utopianism
Work will need to be done, however the vast majority of modern doesn’t need to be done. We don’t need new widgets and gizmos, we need to get bread and water to the hungry and roofs over the homeless.
I am anti-work/pro-work abolishment in the sense that work as we currently define isn’t meaningful or good in any way. the majority of workers these days are just slaves or indentured servants with extra steps. The way we define work right now needs to be abolished and needed to be abolished 200 years ago.
Work that betters the world and enriches the worker (and provides plenty of time to not work) is the goal in my book. We need to radically change the way we work, why we work, who gets to chose how the fruits of labor are distributed. When we are building a better world for ourselves and each other I don't know if we could call it "work". But yeah we will all have to spend some part of our day doing stuff, but ideally that stuff is stuff that actually matters and doesn't just feed some vampires who siphon out our all our labour value away from us.
:anarcho-sickle: :ancom: :ancom-heart:
Nick Offerman was a guest on episode 36 of the Trillbilly podcast.
https://podbay.fm/p/trillbilly-workers-party/e/1518023769
Reaching fully automated luxury gay space communism will result in the abolition of work, so I support this.
