I hope everyone had a great week! Hang out. Chat. Talk about what's going on. Have fun :3

  • ashinadash [she/her]
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago
    Unending bookposting!

    Oooooh look at this ✨ holy shit it's incredible... You know...

    subversivism creates the impression that trans masculinities are inherently “subversive” and “transgressive,” while their trans feminine counterparts are “lame” and “conservative” in comparison.

    Now I think about it, Kieran and Maria kind of play this silly dichotomy out exactly, that must be intentional I suppose. But yes, I can see the whole-ass roots of Nevada's weirdo takes right here, I feel like I put on the shades from They Live glasses-on this is fuckin awesome. Take a shot every time bad actors in the trans community recreate a gender binary. I know what "oppositional sexism" is! Kinda scuffed, again, claiming that non-binary gender identities are "on top", like even just today I've watched a nonbinary person get conversationally trodden upon by binary trans women, what horseshit.

    I do actually find it kind of fascinating that Serano takes it back to queer unity though, that's very interesting. But uh

    These days, many transs*xuals assume that they have the right to appropriate the language of, or speak on behalf of, intersex people; similarly, many cissexual genderqueers feel they have the right to do the same for transs*xuals. This needlessly erases each group’s unique issues, obstacles, and perspectives.

    What does this mean, lol. Please do not tell me that cissies have been stealing our language behind my back??? I beg of you... "Gender libertarianism" is fucking hilarious though. But this whole thing is fascinating, dang. I have been enlightened, and it turns out the solution was just to read theory all along!!! It almost reads like Maria misread Whipping Girl now, lol

    • good_girl [she/her, they/them]
      ·
      edit-2
      7 months ago
      no gender-libs

      These days, many transs*xuals assume that they have the right to appropriate the language of, or speak on behalf of, intersex people; similarly, many cissexual genderqueers feel they have the right to do the same for transs*xuals. This needlessly erases each group’s unique issues, obstacles, and perspectives.

      So this is one of those parts that Serano intentionally left unchanged in later editions and Whipping Girl's age becomes apparent again. Serano herself, and from what I gather- queer activism of the time, made the distinction between Transgender and MTF identities (MTF being anyone born male that displays exceptional feminine traits, qualities, or behaviors but can identify as their assigned gender or otherwise. Transgender being anybody who displays exceptional cross-gender traits, qualities, or behaviors but can identify as their assigned gender or otherwise) and Transs*xuals. (Essentially what we acknowledge today as transgender, meaning someone who identifies with a gender that's incongruent with their assigned gender.)

      I'll attach a passage at the end where she goes into it a bit as well.

      In this passage Serano is saying that cissexual genderqueers (meaning cissexuals who identify as genderqueer due to politics or potentially people who do not feel within the gender binary but also do not identify with transs*xuals.) had a tendency to speak for trans individuals while not entirely being affected by the same societal systems and pressures.

      I feel like I explained it badly but the messiness is a product of the age of the text I think.

      also i'll just attach a link to the book to make it easier to look up if you need to.

      passage

      Now that we understand “sex” and “gender,” we can begin to consider the word transgender, which is perhaps one of the most confusing and misunderstood words in the English language. While the word originally had a more narrow definition, since the 1990s it has been used primarily as an umbrella term to describe those who defy societal expectations and assumptions regarding femaleness and maleness; this includes people who are transs*xual (those who live as members of the sex other than the one they were assigned at birth), intersex (those who are born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that does not fit the typical definitions of female or male), and genderqueer (those who identity outside of the male/female binary), as well as those whose gender expression differs from their anatomical or perceived sex (including crossdressers, drag performers, masculine women, feminine men, and so on). I will also sometimes use the synonymous term gender-variant to describe all people who are considered by others to deviate from societal norms of femaleness and maleness. The far-reaching inclusiveness of the word “transgender” was purposely designed to accommodate the many gender and sexual minorities who were excluded from the previous feminist and gay rights movements. At the same time, its broadness can be highly problematic in that it often blurs or erases the distinctiveness of its constituents. For example, while male crossdressers and transs*xual men are both male-identified transgender people, these groups face a very different set of issues with regards to managing their gender difference. Similarly, drag queens and transs*xual women generally have very different experiences and perspectives regarding gender, despite the fact that they are often confused with one another by mainstream society.

      • ashinadash [she/her]
        ·
        7 months ago
        haha...

        ...okay that's really strange, huh. That's not a definition I've ever heard of in my life and it doesn't make any sense to me, not a word of it. So needlessly complicated and weird, thank fuck I was not on trans internet in 2007 because wtf.

        I see, are there really "political genderqueers"? Huh, now I don't understand anything anymore blob-no-thoughts

        Is... the entire book steeped in ridiculous crusty terminology like this? A crisis, I wonder if I read Gender Outlaw wrong by not having this bizarro definition of "transgender" in mind. Maybe I am a lib.

        • good_girl [she/her, they/them]
          ·
          7 months ago
          spoiler

          I see, are there really "political genderqueers"?

          I imagine that there were at the time in the same way there were political lesbians. Their existence would connect back with subversivism and the desire to 'break the gender binary'.

          Is... the entire book steeped in ridiculous crusty terminology like this?

          Unfortunately it's definitely spread throughout the book, but Serano does well to front-load the definitions. She goes into it a bit in the 2nd editions preface.

          While the major themes that I forward in Whipping Girl remain just as vital and relevant today as they were when I was first writing the book, some of the specific descriptions and details will surely seem increasingly dated as time marches on. So in this preface to the second edition, I want to place the book in historical context, as it most certainly was a reaction to what was happening in society, and within activist and academic circles, during the early-to-mid aughts (or “the zeros,” as I prefer to call the first decade of this millennium). While a decade is not a huge amount of time in the grand scheme of things, it certainly feels like a lifetime ago when it comes to public understandings and discussions about transgender people.

          http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2016/04/excerpt-from-whipping-girl-second.html

          • ashinadash [she/her]
            ·
            7 months ago
            spoiler

            I'll make sure to snag the second edition then, huh... these weirdo definitions are all new to me.

            • good_girl [she/her, they/them]
              ·
              edit-2
              7 months ago
              spoiler

              There's actually a third edition now! It just came out last month and she included an extended afterword where she goes into the "basic biology" argument as well as the topic of "trans grooming."

              • ashinadash [she/her]
                ·
                7 months ago
                spoiler

                Oh awesome, very nice, an update for new kinds of suck!