But I’m on the second episode and I guess the Christian god just canonically exists in this show? Crosses and holy water and shit work on vampires. Seems like a bold choice for a show to say “uh yeh that deity canonically exists in our show but I guess it’s just indifferent or whatever?”
Maybe this gets lampshaded at some point but in the second episode it’s weird as fuck lol
willow also calls upon various greek gods like hekate. also some egyptian ones. implies basically any god you think of exists
reminder to not summon allah and fight him alone, he is too powerful
So from my recollection they never deny or confirm the existence of the christian deity and they are actually kinda agnostic about it.
In the second season one of the Vampires boasts to his followers that he was present at the crucifixion of Christ. This prompts a response from fellow Vampire and MVP of the show Spike who responds: "Please. If every vampire who claimed he was at the crucifixion was actually there it would have been like woodstock!"
Honestly the reason the Vampires in the show are burned by crosses or holy water kinda just falls into the same reason sunlight burns them, or why they have to be invited inside a house even when other demons don't have the same stipulations. Its the same reason any of the other supernatural elements act the way they do or have the weaknesses they have. Magic is this weird chaotic force in the buffyverse and that's basically just the particular way it happens to impact them.
No it's way stupider the Christian devil exists, the cross works, souls are a thing but the Christian God doesn't exist.
It's pretty lazy worldbuilding as if you're going to cut out the religious aspect of vampire stories you should probably also remove Christian iconography being a weapon that can hurt them.
like just do an athiest vampire story if you're going to do an athiest vampire story
but the Christian God doesn’t exist.
...when is that ever stated? I certainly don't recall it.
I think there's a bit where a frankensteins monster disproves god with facts and logic and everyoe just goes "yep that did it"
Crosses are an ancient symbol that predate Christianity, the Egyptian ankh is pretty similar. It could have nothing to do with Christ. Holy water is sanctified with a cross if I remember rightly and magic does exist in universe so maybe crosses just are anti-vampire for some forgotten reason.
I'm reminded of the castlevania anime; they tried to get past the religious connotations of the cross so they specifically explained the reason the cross works is because....vampires are disoriented by mathematical symbols. Yes really.
I mean, that's sort of in line with the old mythology of them having to count each grain of rice if you pour out a bag infront of them, like that numbers and math are some weakness for them? Still kinda whacky though.
I think for me one of the issues was that it takes geometric genius to build Dracula's castle, so it didn't make sense to me.
count each grain of rice
So there's another reason that a vampire teaches counting on Sesame Street other than "The Count" pun. Cool.
Yeah but if you know how to leverage that weakness into a strength, you get a good paying job in children's television.
Didn’t that show have a moment where a priest throwing holy water did nothing, but a Belmont was able to ignite it? It was implying true faith mattered more than earthly authority.
heh..
There's this wild British show from a while back called, Being Human, (starts out kinda "What We Do in the Shadows" and then ramps shit up to 15 and rocket jumps all the sharks before going into orbit.) At some point the Jewish guy with a Star of David on a necklace is able to ward off vampires with it. Its explained is a loose sort of way, that it works less from magic/god stuff and more as a focus for the love that the character had for his friends that he was trying to protect.
I always liked this scene from Dr Who. It's the faith behind the symbol that wards off vampires
One of these days I'm going to have get into watching Dr. Who. Haven't really seen an episode since the (original run?) 80's.
Just as a heads up, the first season is quite rough and has a couple of the worst episodes in the whole series, but the finale is pretty well-regarded. They were still finding their feet
Second season is still sanding the edges and is full-length, but has a very emotionally impactful back half and introduces fan-favorite character Spike.
Third season is overall my favorite season of the show and is where it really hit its stride. Season five is regarded more generally as the best season of the show. Season six is the worst season by a fair margin IMO.
So don't get discouraged if the first season seems bad, it gets better if you stick with it.
Agree with you on most buuuuut:
Season six is the worst season by a fair margin IMO.
Hot take from someone who used to feel this way: actually season six is far and away the best season and was just way ahead of its time. So many of its themes and its stories just felt oddly depressing and mean spirited for the show when it first aired but my god does it border on prophetic. Just look at the big bad of that season.
Back then, even the show in one episode kinda shrugged at the audience reactions of them as being Joke villains. Today...they might honestly be the most terrifying villains of the show because they're absolutely 100% what would happen if you gave redpilled incel nerds magic and scifi tech. What other show was even talking about misogyny and shit like this in nerd culture at the time? Likewise the way it talked about depression and the millennial struggle of feeling sort of trapped between childhood and adulthood is so much more on point now than it was at the time. Magic as a drug analog I do think is still something of a stretch...but the way it approached the subject of addiction was still pretty wild for a network show about witches and vampires.
Edit: also always worth noting that Season 6 is when Whedon went off to do Firefly and as a result this season has the least amount of his influence by far. At the time that was a huge mark against it...but again....in hindsight.....
The themes of young adult depression were fine, I personally don't like season six because season five had that finality to it and that was very abruptly reversed because it was revived by another network; and also because I agree with the more general opinion on why it was bad, that being that changing magic use into a metaphor for drug addiction was bad and retroactively hurt its previous thematic role in the series.
I do agree that magic as drug addiction is still the biggest misstep in the season...but even that one I've softened on a bit even if I do consider it a botched execution. You say its previous thematic role in the series is hurt by it, but I would argue that the overlap between magic/occultism and drugs was thematically kinda a thing going back to at least season 2 if not earlier. See: Giles past as ripper and the summoning of Eyghon, or the candy that turned everyone into teenagers. Magic as a factor in abusive relationships is also a pretty consistent theme also since season one such as with Amy's mom.
I would argue the biggest problem with the metaphor in season 6 is that they went too far and made it too literal to the point it feels incompatible with the mechanics of the world up to and after that point. I think there actually was an interesting story to tell in the way Willow became dependent on magic to handle all of her problems and the way she used it against the consent of Tara to solve relationship issues. The magical crack-house though....I don't know who came up with that but that was a bit too on the nose and head scratching. I guess since it was the early 00s they were worried people wouldn't understand the issue without that or something.
Is three the one with spike? I enjoyed that one a lot, the season after the one with spike felt like a mess and I stopped watching
Spike has a guest appearance in one of the season's best episodes where he gives Buffy and Angel relationship advice. But he doesn't become a series regular until season four when they put the chip in his head (ugh)
I LOVED THAT EPISODE
it was the only thing that kept me watching that season for longer , but then I realized the rest of it was still p bad
They put a what in his what?
In Season Four theres an amusing subversion of the "old villain returns and has a sinister monologue watching the heroes" trope where he starts and immediately gets stunned and captured by some military guys called the Initiative. They put a chip in his head that shocks him when he tries to do violence to humans. He escapes and appeals to the Scooby Gang for help, they think helping a sociopathic vampire be able to kill again is a bad idea, so he mostly just hangs around for the rest of the show being their frienemy (he finds a loophole that he can fight monsters and demons without triggering the chip, and in later seasons goes through a serious character arc of his own).
It was mostly a lazy plot device to get a logical excuse to keep Spike as a regular,, he fills a niche of being a ruthless soulless vampire (in contrast to Angel) who could both play Devil's Advocate or be comic relief depending on the situation.
IIRC they never really comment on why holy water and crosses work. They do have other deities than the Christian god show up later, though, but there's also canonically a heaven and there's several "hell dimensions". It's quite a mess, honestly, but it's a fun watch.
idk it seems more reasonable than saying "yeah we have these evil monsters from premodern folklore, but because we are enlightened moderns they work totally different. defeat nosferatu by writing a callout post."
It's weird and campy for basically as long as I watched it. Got about three, maybe four seasons in before I lost interest. But God doesn't show up in those parts I watched 🤷🏻♀️
ITT: Zoomers irritated that a TV show from the 90ies doesn't have consistent and well thought out world-building.
As the resident old fart who was around back when the show aired, it was the same for basically every single show on TV. Unlike Buffy, most of them didn't even have season spanning story arcs.
Aren't most of these magical realism urban fantasy properties just weird catholic fanfiction along with demonic possession movies
