Capitalists when they fucking destroy nature and there's nothing left to pillage:
:shocked-pikachu:.
There's a very strong possibility at least some of the snow crab population went further north + west into colder parts of the bering sea owned by Russia / Canada.
most of the crabs could very much still be alive and actually just went further north / west into the colder parts of the bering sea owned by Russia and Canada.
Any crabs that did stick around were likely killed as bycatch by trawler fisheries chasing larger fish that have also moved further north due to climate change.
Americans literally climated changed themselves out of billions in crab murder money lol
most of the crabs could very much still be alive and actually just went further north / west into the colder parts of the bering sea owned by Russia and Canada
:ooooooooooooooh: MY CRABS BEEN STOLED BY PUTLER
The TNO mod for HOI4 features America and Japan starting a nuclear holocaust over fishing rights to shrimp, funnily enough.
Unsurprised ghouls would lose it over which group or capitalists gets to pillage part of the earth.
:agony-shivering:
HOI4 sounds like it has tons of cool shit and modding community. I really wish it was my type of game, I like hearing about it, but for the life of me I can't get into those types of games. I use to play regular RTS games a lot but I've also lost interest in then.
Do you know of any good youtubers who do good HOI4 content? I'd probably watch some of that at least
TNO doesn't use the actual game mechanics much, depending on the nation you play. It's much more about reading the 9,000 text events, so you might still enjoy it.
if you wanna get into a paradox game and like dungeons and dragons I recommend looking into Anbennar because it's p. cool
crab murder
🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
You are rolling your eyes at that phrasing in a thread about the ecological collapse caused by viewing other animals as disposable. okay.
:vegan-liberation:
crabs literally do not even have a nervous system more complex than a simple ganglion so the take that it is "murder" is even more extreme than 99% of vegans' opinions, it is on the level of fucking Jains sweeping the path in front of them to not step on a bug. kill a roach? OMG MURDER. 🙄
the ecological collapse of an entire species of animal because of human greed feels like a form of murder to me.
there is also a big difference between a Jain sweeping the path in front of them and being against the mass trawling of industrial fishing fleets.
It's unfortunate your hatred of vegans seems to be greater than your care for the environment.
you can be against trawling and be against eating crabs without calling it fucking "murder" and trying to characterize the death of a fucking crab as equitable to the death of a human, but okay :shrug-outta-hecks: believe whatever weird shit you want
Be considerate, a heard of Alaskan snow crabs killed his entire family.
That's wonderful to hear you are against trawling and eating crabs. How do you feel those beliefs extend to the fishing industry as a whole?
-
I don't eat fish or any seafood shit tastes like ass
-
killing a fish still isn't murder
-
hate to break it to you but the oceans are gonna die anyway and then we're all dead too
It seems like you're fine with the industry you just personally don't like seafood. Fish are more advanced than humans give any credit for and even fishing where you throw them back, you're inflicting trauma on a creature and they do remember the pain and suffering of the hook.
Why is it not murder? The fish may not be able to conceptualize their own death and feel anything particular about it, but it is still the snuffing of a life. Animal liberation is an integral part of not only mitigating climate disaster, but something we should be advocating for as a species that is able to conceptualize death and empathize with other creatures.
Just because something bad is happening doesn't mean that we should simply throw our hands up and stop trying to advocate for a better world.
Why is it not murder?
because murder is a word specifically used to refer to the killing of persons, not the killing of whatever random shit, and it is generally considered insulting to hold up the death of a bug and the death of a person as equitable
you wanna call killing an elephant murder? okay sure
you wanna call killing a dolphin murder? fine I agree
call killing a fly murder? there's literally something wrong with you if you think it's the same fucking thing
What is that line that specifically demands that it is not murder? Is it the fact that an insect is an arthropod and thus much more distantly related to us than an elephant or dolphin which are closely related? There is more depth to the animal world than we want to ever admit because it makes us ask uncomfortable questions about ourselves. We can notice a difference in personalities in spiders and we've noted that jumping spiders can dream. We humans demand that the natural world bend to our will with the consequences be damned and without a shred of respect to all of the other creatures and living beings that are fundamental to even creating a habitable space for us. Things die, the natural world is cruel but we should try to minimize our impact on the amount of cruelty in the world.
There is no clean line. What's the difference between a cat and a pig beyond culture stating one is food and the other is a pet? Why does there need to be a specific level of sentience for a life to be valued? When we're talking about the systemic destruction of an entire species due to human avarice, is that not murder as well? Is that not actually worse than murder? We're destroying countless lives and destroying the planet but when someone tells you that maybe killing animals for food is just not sustainable and that we should value the lives of the creatures around us, people get absurdly worked up and aggressive defending their right to destroy the lives of countless creatures across the world.
Murder,
noun the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Why does there need to be a specific level of sentience for a life to be valued?
plants and fungi can communicate but strangely that's never a consideration, obviously the line is drawn somewhere, and you're committing the same neuro-chauvinism as I but with a different cut-off for "the value of life"
You responded so fast that you clearly didn't even read. You're quoting the fucking dictionary at me, are you not ashamed?
Languages evolve, the usage of words can shift and rules can be intentionally broken to make a point. You're clearly in bad faith and I'm done.
I think if you're "evolving language" to the point that you are arguing a pest control sweep for roaches is the same as the holocaust you're "evolving language" in a pretty shitty way
I’m done.
fine ditto
I think if you’re “evolving language” to the point that you are arguing a pest control sweep for roaches is the same as the holocaust you’re “evolving language” in a pretty shitty way
where did anyone say that? last i checked people were complaining that crabs were being fished out of existence. bit of a reach there
where did anyone say that? last i checked people were complaining that crabs were being fished out of existence. bit of a reach there
some jackasses doing a bad parody of vegans are throwing around words like "murder"
They said "crab murder"
They're literally differentiating it from normal murder because it does not normally fall under the umbrella of murder.
Just like how there's a difference between "porn" and "food porn".
-
If you start from a framework that sees ecological systems (including animals and populations) as inherently valuable, and proceed from there, you'll probably end up making better environmental decisions than if you ask "how many neurons does it have?" and moving from there.
if you start from a framework of not using whatever words you vibe with and understand how incredibly fucking annoying and insulting it is to see things like "crab fishing" compared to "the holocaust" you'd probably make better propaganda decisions for your cause
Definitely. Radicals get more mileage talking like normal people. I still take issue to the way your comment devalued crabs.
devalue crabs
devalue actually sentient life
:same-picture:
Yeah, you just repeated your first comment that I objected to. You're pretty clearly not listening to me.
sapient*
but anyway I just assume these people are wreckers trying to make vegans look bad
Ganglion is kind of a misnomer when dealing with Arthropods, these are very complex structures and the Dorsal cluster is generally referred to as a brain.
There is some good evidence that the neuronal structures responsible for subjective experience (as opposed to sapience) is pretty basal and at least some Arthropods have it. Certainly my own experience keeping insects has shown they have individual likes and preferences.
I'm not vegan and I don't think overfishing of crabs is equivalent to killing "higher" vertebrates, but there does seem to be at least some moral value attached here.
you first
I was gonna walk away from this shit but y'all sound real fucking eco fascist with this "killing a crab = killing a human" shit, fuck off
a human purposely ending another living creature’s life isn’t murder?
also crabs can absolutely feel pain
No it's not fucking murder, there are a dozen words for killing something and choosing the one word used for killing a fucking person doesn't mean it's appropriate for a crab because you feel it is. Stop talking to me.
Edit: I don't even eat crabs you fuck, disengage
:LIB:
How'd you even find this site
Imagine getting so worked up over your defense of treats
Oh my god will you people fuck off
"Defense of treats" I DON'T EVEN EAT CRAB AND SAYING IT ISN'T MURDER ISN'T THE DEFENSE OF EATING CRAB
FUCK OFF
DISENGAGE
also i’ve never seen someone so bent out of shape over simple semantics. your response to someone talking about the MURDER of crabs is to have a meltdown on the hexagon bear website over the usage of what word they used to describe that MURDER and be like “um akshually they barely have a nervous system :so-true: “ in order to defend your treats is extremely reactionary. and using phrases like “x isn’t __ just because you feel like it is” really invokes that facts over feelings type bs so i really can’t tell if you’re a wrecker or someone so deep into their own carnist beliefs that they’ll go ballistic and and whine and cry in order to defend said MURDER.
us humans share the world with other animals, we don’t rule them or dominate over them and aren’t “superior” to them. the premidated killing of another living creature is murder, simple as that. if i came to your home and murdered your pets (i feel like i should clarify i’m not this is a hypothetical) and planned it out before i executed it, and someone said “hey i’m sorry someone murdered your pets” would you really stop them and be like “um akshually it’s not murder :so-true: “ lmfao. and using the u.s. legal definition of murder is hilarious considering the u.s. legal definition of a black person used to be that of 3/5 a white person and the gop is working on changing the legal definition of a fetus to a person essentially, which is are extreme examples i know but cmon lmao not the best resource to draw from.
i don't disagree there's nothing from the ocean or rivers or lakes that I want to eat
what makes it worse is I stole it so you'd think it'd taste better right? nope, all it did was ruin my rice :deeper-sadness:
Additional twitter thread from someone else with a history of the Alaskan snow crab collapse:
https://nitter.net/unpop_science/status/1581660239501283329
TL;DR: It is likely also due to extensive fishing. The fishing industry destroyed itself and the ecosystem.
You mean when you scoop up all the sea life there is no more sea life? :shocked-pikachu:
The first movie was straight up caused by underpaying and overworking employees, and all the rest, idk, if you can build a novel dino genome maybe don't include the parthenogenesis genes in there
You also mean when you warm all the oceans cold-water adapted animals perish and migrate to colder waters? :shocked-pikachu:
This is also unprecedented. If only we could have known.
There’s a very strong possibility at least some of the snow crab population went further north + west into colder parts of the bering sea owned by Russia / Canada.
Breaking news from the future
2025 GOP President Ghoul declares war on Canada demanding an immediate surrender and that "They give us our crabs back!"
Come on, the Democrats are ghouls, the GOP are liches. Except for Manchin who looks set to go demi lich and have his skull start flying around any day now.
red king crab distribution and productivity appear to be related to bottom temperature
:bottom-speak:
This is so incredibly black pilling for me. I grew up in the pacific north west. What's the point of saving the world if the world we save is dead?
We can save the world before we lose more. Otherwise we're looking at even more mass die off events if capitalism goes unchallenged.
It's a dark scenario, but there is a lot of bloomer energy to be found in the knowledge of how many we can save.
The Earth is going to be just fine. It will not be dead.
Life on Earth has lived through 5 mass extinction events already. It will survive through more.
What we need to worry about is the ecological systems that we humans depend on for life which are at risk.
If you're up for new reads, this book I found to be very reassuring and gives me a lot of hope for the future.
They knew Alex Jones was coming with his little canoe and tiny net.
Russia stole em;!!
Also this thread is on its way to a struggle session
