This is why you don't use real guns shooting blanks when CGI can replicate any sort of gun discharge.
We have had gas-powered guns to simulate recoil for training since the early 1900's.
Add CGI and it looks flawless.
Lol no. CGI guns are not flawless, not to mention it’s painstaking to get it to a ‘good’ quality
It looks like crap in CGI. You have every actor giving their personal interpretation of a pew pew motion and some don't pretend to have recoil at all. Then it just gives permission to continue to lower the production value until everything looks like a netflix teen drama.
They suggested using a gas-powered gun which simulates recoil, the actors would not have to pretend to recoil
That + squibs would be good.
I for one sorta like how hollywood has this other side where it's treated like a small country and allowed to screw around with things like live guns and explosives and stuff. I think its sorta fun and wild-westy and I think there's room for danger to still exist in the world. It is fucking terrible that a scab loaded a gun with a real round and caused Baldwin to fucking kill a woman.
I think one of the divides on people's takes with this is "gun users" vs "non gun users". I think all my gun-owning friends are on the same page, that it doesn't matter what the expectations are on a movie set with a full time paid armorer might be - gun safety is the same in every situation. If someone hands you a gun and says it's safe, you check to ensure they're correct. Every single time. When bullshitting with friends, if I go get a gun to show them, I will rack the slide or operate the bolt to show it's clear, then hand it to them, then they'll do the same thing. It's an automatic habit, like putting on a seatbelt when you get into a car.
if the chain of custody was working correctly this wouldn't have happened.
I can't even imagine what he'd be commenting on this if he were still on twitter.
BaldLOSER hasn't had a decent gig in years, hope you can direct a safer play in MAX PRISON Alec.
Good call. When he tried to get out of responsibility by lying about not pulling the trigger, he lost any claim to it being an accident.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/gun-rust-shooting-fired-pulling-trigger-fbi-report/story?id=88311336
Accidental discharge testing determined that the firearm used in the shooting -- a .45 Colt (.45 Long Colt) caliber F.lli Pietta single-action revolver -- could not have fired without the trigger being pulled, the FBI report shows.
With the hammer in the quarter- and half-cock positions, the gun "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger," the report stated.
With the hammer fully cocked, the gun "could not be made to fire without a pull of the trigger while the working internal components were intact and functional," the report stated.
Creating the conditions to murder someone, pointing a gun at them and pulling the trigger, :shocked-pikachu: when it kills them.
CGI guns are the future. Even blanks have killed dozens of people over the years.
Gun thats basically a shell + firecracker in the barrel, squibs for dude getting shot, fix the sound in post. It works, it looks better than digital, it's safe enough and it's cheap.
Orange tipped 'weapons' should be used in any movie with a significant budget anyway. Easy enough to cgi it away.
They have gas-cartridge guns that can simulate recoil.
Muzzle flash is trivial for CGI nowadays.
It's a blurry line for me in this case because it's the same kind of thing as social murder. You're intentionally creating the conditions for someone to die. He's the producer trying to cheap out with scab labour, not checking the weapon from his discount gun contractor, and pulling the trigger the first time in the direction of another person. To me that's second-degree murder more than it is manslaughter because he's being negligent at multiple levels for profit.
Baldwin was the producer of the movie on top of having done the actual shooting.
There was some union kerfuffle from what I remember, the union armorors were striking or protesting the safety standards on set. This was not the first accidental discharge on the set (there were 3 previous, they were blank. 2 times previous the actor handling the gun was told it was cold even though it had blanks - i.e. was told nothing was loaded but they were in fact loaded with blanks).
There shouldn't be live armmo on a set. I don't know why it was brought on. The scab armorers brought it on. I don't remember their explanation but I remember thinking it was dumb as fuck.
Baldwin bears some responsibility for allowing safety to go so lax as producer. If you were just an actor and someone handed you a live gun, but you had every reason to think it was a prop gun that was not loaded with live ammo, you wouldn't face a murder charge I don't think- cause you'd have reasonably expected the armorer to ensure safety, you would've checked and seen it loaded but reasonably could have thought it was a blank or dummy. But Baldwin is in deeper shit cause he was in charge of armorers as the producer.
Edit: also, apparently the armorer previously had a discharge on a different movie that made Nicholas Cage walk off. I didnt hear the details.
Baldwin bears some responsibility for allowing safety to go so lax as producer.
Sounds like he bears most of the responsibility, fuck him.
Hiring the scab armorers makes him completely complicit lol. Real "Leopard bit my face"
I thought I remember hearing some people just wanted to use the same guns to shoot for real during off-time.
Yes Baldwin the actor is innocent, Baldwin the producer is :porky-scared-flipped: :gulag:
Seems like the scab armourer was just a dumbass, but I like this theory.
Let this be a lesson: all guns are to be considered loaded until you verify otherwise. And do not verify by pulling the trigger while pointing at something :marx-guns-blazing:
I'm kinda a fuckhead but gun safety is paramount. Treat every gun as if it's loaded. Never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. Never shoot unless you know what is behind your target. Baldwin broke all those rules. He can get fucked. "Tools not toys" was drilled into my head from a young age.
Yeah wtf its a gun on a movie set. You're supposed to point it at other people and pull the trigger. I think you could have a reasonable expectation that the gun was not loaded with real bullets.
In this case Baldwin's production company cheaped out on having an experienced (and unionized) armorer be in charge of the guns and got some producer's faildaughter to do it instead. Nepotism directly caused the accident, and blame in this case might correctly float to the person in charge.
All gun safety rules are built with redundancy so that this doesn't happen even if a rule gets broken. You have to break at least two or three rules to actually hurt someone. Like, someone might fuck up at some point and flag someone with their muzzle, but as long as their finger is off the trigger, the gun isn't going to fire and nobody is going to get hurt.
One of the rules for an environment like a movie set -- the most important one, and by far the easiest to follow -- is that live ammo shouldn't be anywhere near the set at all. It isn't a unique one either, since similar rules are followed with many people's firearm storage and maintenance practices -- you keep your guns separate from your ammo unless you need to have both of them. Another one is that multiple people are supposed to verify what, if anything, is loaded into the gun, before handing it off to the actor. The actor is also supposed to follow the normal rules of firearm safety to the greatest extent that is possible for the scene. Everyone who was responsible for safety here failed at all of their jobs simultaneously, which allowed this to happen.
I'd side with you if it was on camera/during a scene but this was him fucking around with an unknowingly loaded gun between scenes. When I clean my guns and do a dry fire I always point at the ground or a backstop. Even if I just looked down the bore and saw daylight and know it was empty. The consequences of breaking these habits will kill people.
IIRC Baldwin gets the blame here because it was his production company that made the decision not to have a properly trained person in charge of the firearms on set. If you want to use real guns in your movie then great, get a real armorer on the prop crew to manage them - otherwise use fake ones.
Im pretty sure it was a squib load, same thing that killed Brandon Lee.
In fairness, if you work with even cap guns in theatre you are getting a lesson or two on gun safety from the prop guy.
Theatrical Guns are if anything even more strict. There should not have been live ammo anywhere on set. The blank loaded gun chamber should have been physically shown to Baldwin before he was given it, and after it should have been given straight back to the armourer.
As an actor he's a bit negligent in not demanding this. As a union busting producer who hired a known unsafe scab hes absolutely culpable.
What the fuck happened while I took my nap?
I woke up to so much good news
I'll try but covid and my paxlovid treatment has made it pretty hard the last week
I fell asleep during the end of a movie I was watching earlier and woke up to the end credits of the movie that came on after it
You ever see in old kung fu movies when they have squibs they still aim just past the other actors? You cant tell in motion and it is a good safety practice
More info:
https://www.indiewire.com/2023/01/rust-charges-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins-case-1234801253/
everyone in this thread talking about blanks but apparently it was actual live ammo? holy hell
But the key question that remained unanswered was how live bullets found their way to the “Rust” set.
When this first broke I read that the armorer was basically taking the guns and doing target practice while not on set. Not sure if that was ever confirmed or not.
apparently that was the case. there is evidence that guns were taken and loaded with live rounds and used to shoot cans during free time. they also found live rounds on set, which is apparently something that is never supposed to happen according to industry people.
the "armorer" was also split across 2 roles and it was only their 2nd time in the role of armorer, though they seem to be a nepo baby and their father was a long time hollywood armorer.
so the armorer brought a gun with a live round to the set scene and said it was ready. the producer doing the final check at the table announced the gun as "cold" and therefore not loaded with anything that could fire (blanks or live rounds), and handed it to baldwin. and baldwin took it, holstered it, then practicing a draw that was meant to be aimed at a camera, shot and killed someone behind the camera. then everybody blamed everybody else, because apparently nobody did their job. multiple failures by different people is an institutional and cultural problem. and throw in the armorer said it was intentional sabotage.
when that all is included in with the IATSE union complaints, a strike threat over chaotic/unsafe conditions on that set and others the producers ran, a lot more needs to happen than criminal charges against baldwin and the armorer, but of course i don't trust any criminal investigation agency within the US to actually go through this situation and assign proportional blame based on culpability.
so the armorer brought a gun with a live round to the set scene and said it was ready. the producer doing the final check at the table announced the gun as “cold” and therefore not loaded with anything that could fire (blanks or live rounds), and handed it to baldwin. and baldwin took it, holstered it, then practicing a draw that was meant to be aimed at a camera, shot and killed someone behind the camera. then everybody blamed everybody else, because apparently nobody did their job. multiple failures by different people is an institutional and cultural problem. and throw in the armorer said it was intentional sabotage.
Baldwin sounds the least at fault here, why is he the one being charged?
from what I heard they were hiring scabs because the people managing special effects were striking and the scab armourer apparently loaded in real ammunition instead of blanks and forgot to double check it and then Baldwin pulled the trigger thinking it had a blank in it and it happened to be pointing at someone
This is some Ace Attorney level shit :edgeworth-shrug:
Even blanks can kill. Firearms of any kind shouldn't be on set.
EDIT: The bullets found their way on set because the idiot armorer brought them for the actors to shoot cans with.
Baldwin was a producer as well and therefore responsible for hiring this armorer
The licensing requirements for being an armorer in most states is a joke.
Some US states have no testing at all to become a armorer. Just a clean record and have your equipment like gun safes and certain gun types examined every X amount of years.
holy shit. I haven't been following the story that closely, but I remember when it first came out everyone was talking about how even blanks can still kill someone at close range. That's fuckin insane. Personally I think Baldwin sucks as an actor and a dude, but that really does sound like he was set up.
Producer who hired scab armorers with bad record and fired the gun? Should've been negligent homicide
