Why? As far as I can see, tobacco is a purely exploitative industry. I'm all for people being able to use whatever drugs they want but tobacco gets pushed on people by convenience, peer pressure, and to cut the edge off from wage slavery (temporarily). In my mind it's an industry purely fueled by exploitation and funnels wealth from poor to rich without even a pretense of a benefit for the poor. I'm open to having my mind changed though.
Tobacco is bad, but abolition doesn't work and every prior attempt to make a drug illegal in the US has just led to further criminalization of being poor/black and helped make a few cartels insanely wealthy. I'd rather they ban all tobacco marketing and slap a big picture of black lungs on every pack.
Edit: also guillotine every tobacco exec ofc :inshallah-script:
lmao mf thinks there's going to be bootlegging and speakeasies for tobacco. In no way does it improve society to make it easy for cigarette corporations to poison the population and extract their wealth with an addictive, pointless drug.
There will be a black market for ciggs, but they don’t get you intoxicated in a way even a hundredth comparable to weed or booze, so it doesn’t seem reasonable to assume there would be a massive demand like we saw for prohibition
Then why is there a massive demand for them now? You're trying to use some sort of logic to argue against observable reality. Regardless of nicotine's intoxicating effects, millions still continue to smoke. If it was a simple "legislate it away fix" then almost no one would smoke.
Cigarettes and E-cigarettes are illegal and thus hard to access for people under 21. Since it's illegal for teens to purchase it, they won't go through the hassle of finding someone older to purchase them and no one would do them. - GarbageShoot
Wow, what a shocker. I guess you can't just think really hard and reach some measure of truth solely from that. You need to look at the material conditions and do some actual study, who would have known? It's not like this websites entire ideology is based on historical materialism and yet idealism is the sole thought process of people who use it.
Believe it or not people don't wait for the legal age to start using legal substances.
There are people who smoke who aren't of age and get their ciggs from other people purchasing them. Even banning new sales, you still have a generation of smokers who are underage to feed the black market demand. Or hell, just pay someone $5 to buy you a pack at the store.
it's far, far easier now for that market to exist for cigarettes than it would be if they weren't sold openly and without hassle at every store you enter
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging.
But we should not ban them because prohibition rarely works on something people can grow in their sheds. Something legal but hard to get will have far less of a market than an easily accessible but illegal product.
Silly me, you're right. Unlike with every other drug banned by the US govt, this time the free market definitely won't find a way to meet the demand, why I bet that the cartel bosses will all pledge to never traffic tobacco out of the goodness of their hearts. This definitely can't backfire and make it easier than ever for minors to purchase tobacco. And I completely trust the US govt to keep their word and only punish sellers, they would never promise one thing and then double cross us and use this as an excuse to conduct more warrantless searches of "suspicious individuals"
Also this legislation is in California, you can still buy cigs in Vegas or wherever.
Also for alot of other people in the thread: The addiction is to Nicotine, not Tobacco. So you outlaw tobacco consumption, but permit nicotine delivery in other methods. People still get addicted to nicotine, and (hypothetically) can't access/afford other nicotine deelivery methods in a situation, so they satisfy their perfectly legal addiction through semi- or illegal means. Not too dissimilar to what exploded the opioid crisis.
Tbf though that's a black market that exists because of the formal market, which feels quite different from a black market existing because of the lack of a formal market
tobacco isn't fun. being drunk is fun. being high is fun. there's no reason to go to great lengths to seek out tobacco unless you already use, and raising the age limit for sales by 1 year every year is a great way to taper off.
The tobacco companies should be punished. This is just going to create a black market, lots of straw purchases, and punish retail workers who refuse to act like some adult's mother. The policy is pure libbrain shit. It stretches the limits of doing things about a problem while completely ignoring the cause.
This seems incredibly stupid.
Why? As far as I can see, tobacco is a purely exploitative industry. I'm all for people being able to use whatever drugs they want but tobacco gets pushed on people by convenience, peer pressure, and to cut the edge off from wage slavery (temporarily). In my mind it's an industry purely fueled by exploitation and funnels wealth from poor to rich without even a pretense of a benefit for the poor. I'm open to having my mind changed though.
Tobacco is bad, but abolition doesn't work and every prior attempt to make a drug illegal in the US has just led to further criminalization of being poor/black and helped make a few cartels insanely wealthy. I'd rather they ban all tobacco marketing and slap a big picture of black lungs on every pack.
Edit: also guillotine every tobacco exec ofc :inshallah-script:
lmao mf thinks there's going to be bootlegging and speakeasies for tobacco. In no way does it improve society to make it easy for cigarette corporations to poison the population and extract their wealth with an addictive, pointless drug.
I can walk 5 minutes and find a weed dealer despite it being illegal in my country.
But apparently this will never happen for ciggs?
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Then why is there a massive demand for them now? You're trying to use some sort of logic to argue against observable reality. Regardless of nicotine's intoxicating effects, millions still continue to smoke. If it was a simple "legislate it away fix" then almost no one would smoke.
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Cigarettes and E-cigarettes are illegal and thus hard to access for people under 21. Since it's illegal for teens to purchase it, they won't go through the hassle of finding someone older to purchase them and no one would do them. - GarbageShoot
Wow, what a shocker. I guess you can't just think really hard and reach some measure of truth solely from that. You need to look at the material conditions and do some actual study, who would have known? It's not like this websites entire ideology is based on historical materialism and yet idealism is the sole thought process of people who use it.
this is banning new sales not trying to force every addict to quit cold turkey.
Believe it or not people don't wait for the legal age to start using legal substances.
There are people who smoke who aren't of age and get their ciggs from other people purchasing them. Even banning new sales, you still have a generation of smokers who are underage to feed the black market demand. Or hell, just pay someone $5 to buy you a pack at the store.
it's far, far easier now for that market to exist for cigarettes than it would be if they weren't sold openly and without hassle at every store you enter
Yes, we should make cigarettes extremely hard to purchase. We should also ban advertising for ciggs and the vast majority of the chemicals they put in them. No flavours, no methnol, no colourful packaging.
But we should not ban them because prohibition rarely works on something people can grow in their sheds. Something legal but hard to get will have far less of a market than an easily accessible but illegal product.
Silly me, you're right. Unlike with every other drug banned by the US govt, this time the free market definitely won't find a way to meet the demand, why I bet that the cartel bosses will all pledge to never traffic tobacco out of the goodness of their hearts. This definitely can't backfire and make it easier than ever for minors to purchase tobacco. And I completely trust the US govt to keep their word and only punish sellers, they would never promise one thing and then double cross us and use this as an excuse to conduct more warrantless searches of "suspicious individuals"
Also this legislation is in California, you can still buy cigs in Vegas or wherever.
Also for alot of other people in the thread: The addiction is to Nicotine, not Tobacco. So you outlaw tobacco consumption, but permit nicotine delivery in other methods. People still get addicted to nicotine, and (hypothetically) can't access/afford other nicotine deelivery methods in a situation, so they satisfy their perfectly legal addiction through semi- or illegal means. Not too dissimilar to what exploded the opioid crisis.
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there already is a black market for cigs, when i smoked i used to buy them off a guy that smuggled shitloads from the continent
was way cheaper
Tbf though that's a black market that exists because of the formal market, which feels quite different from a black market existing because of the lack of a formal market
The article mentioned the state would be targeting stores that are selling, not the people smoking
tobacco isn't fun. being drunk is fun. being high is fun. there's no reason to go to great lengths to seek out tobacco unless you already use, and raising the age limit for sales by 1 year every year is a great way to taper off.
The tobacco companies should be punished. This is just going to create a black market, lots of straw purchases, and punish retail workers who refuse to act like some adult's mother. The policy is pure libbrain shit. It stretches the limits of doing things about a problem while completely ignoring the cause.