Sucks even harder for minorities who are targeted by sexual racism. There is some real dumpster fire discourse among diaspora East Asians about this, for example.
At the risk of sounding like a "representation matters" lib, there's basically zero depiction of Asian men in westoid media as positive role models or attractive partners. Even today it's incredibly rare to see any movies or TV with Asian male protagonists, and the Asian guy "getting the girl" is practically non-existent.
Add onto that a consistent trend of emasculated Asian men as weak, short, and feminine. This is not unlike how a lot of media and people still think of black women as aggressive and over masculine, at least to my understanding and hearing it from a few black women.
Lastly, there's still this idea that sexual racism is acceptable. Like if someone says "I don't want to date <race>" it's still broadly seen as a legitimate personal choice. Compare with someone saying "I don't want to work with <race>" or "I don't want to be friends with <race>".
See, I’d see the silver lining if it was just other groups of people but in my experience Asian girls also tend to think they way too so it’s just :kaneki:
A chunk of any population, Asian or not, male or female or other, have that kind of mentality though. Everyone wants their 6'2 bodybuilder surgeon boyfriend or their D cup supermodel gamer girl or whatever. The people who get over that shit go on to live happy lives, the ones who don't are the ones who live bitter and lonely lives.
I'm my defense I am 6'2" and the idea of a 6'+ lady doctor person sweeping me off my feet and taking me away from all this is what I think about when I'm crying myself to sleep every night.
Idk everyone thinks being really tall is really cool, and it is in a lot of ways, but you'll also go most of your life without being able to stand with your heels on the ground and look your lover in their eyes. It might not seem like much, it might not be something anyone else worries about, but it makes me a little sad sometimes. There's a lot of tall privilege, a huge amount, but you're also fundamentally different from everyone around you. Being a foot taller than everyone else means your ears are above them and you can't follow conversations in noisy venues. You have to bend over or lift someone up to kiss them. People make all kinds of assumptions about you because a tall man must be confident, informed, dominant, and dangerous, Right? Right?
I keep ending up in charge of stuff just by virtue of being a man and the tallest person in the room. It feels cool for a while until you really start to think about what it means about how people view each other, how they conceptualize gender and human bodies. The whole "short kings" thing is, like... just holy shit? Being shorter doesn't make a man any less capable or attractive or present, or at least it shouldn't. But for many people it does and once you're aware of that you have to look at people around you differently because if they'll dismiss someone because they're shorter than average, and esteem people who are taller than average, what other nonsensical and prejudicial views do they hold?
Uft. Sorry for the rant, I just haven't thought about this in a while. But it's been a current throughout my life.
Totally. These days the first thing I think when I see someone with really big breasts is "oof, back pain".
I used to do a ton of sword fighting and everyone with boobs was constantly exchanging advice about the latest sports bras and which ones were actually supportive nad which ones were trash.
Yeah I’m 6’3” and while I don’t think I’d want to give up any of my height sometimes I see pictures of me with a group and I’m just like “Jesus Christ I’m a head and shoulders taller than everyone else”
Being a foot taller than everyone else means your ears are above them and you can’t follow conversations in noisy venues.
Wait, short people can follow conversations in crowded places??? :scared: Now that I think about it that tracks but I never thought about that one.
I keep ending up in charge of stuff just by virtue of being a man and the tallest person in the room.
No fr wtf is up with that. It happens all the time. I’ll be one of the least experienced people in the room and people will still look to me like I should know what’s going on.
When I have a woman or any afab person or a shorter person as my supervisor or manager I always stand behind them and very pointedly differ to them when customers inevitably direct questions to me. Otherwise people will just assume I know what's going on and it's like "dude i am wage labor, they literally have a masters in forestry I just move stuff around"
The manosphere dudes are at least half the problem, but their existence certainly doesn't explain all those ridiculous articles from women trying to explain their fetish for mediocre white dudes as some sort of deep cultural awakening.
As for reactionary politics from parents, that's also a huge problem but ironically it's the manosphere dudes who tend to push back against that by advocating interracial dating.
the manosphere dudes are largely a product of the white fetishism that goes on in the asian female community, asian chicks post hart-celler really threw asian guys under the bus. someone on here a while back said this was a common sociological phenomenon for 1st/2nd generation immigrant women but i'm pretty sure the degree to which whiteness is fetishized in asian female communities remains an outlier, sociological phenomena notwithstanding.
the type of reactionary politics i was referring to mostly consists of standard american conservatism: rampant anti-blackness, bootstraps mentality, communists ruined our country, america was good to us, we wuz khanz/colonize the colonizer narratives, etc. as an aside, i'm really skeptical of the whole 'asian manosphere does interracial dating' thing, i just can't see the massive insecurities they carry around being good for even a normal relationship, much less an interracial one.
Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan really helped mainstream the idea of interracial dating and marriage. The book was a smash hit and so was the movie. It played constantly on Lifetime for years.
being emasculated and dehumanized only affects asian manosphere insofar as they remain incapable of assimilating into whiteness (and its corresponding sexual benefits/social status) as easily as their female counterparts
masculinity is just a number to them, they have no conception of what it is outside of a quantitative (and overwhelmingly western) context
In my experience at least, the manosphere guys are most likely to reject assimilation into whiteness as a misguided relic of their parents' attitudes.
I would characterize the mainstream Asian diaspora view of keeping your head down, working doubly hard to overcome discrimination, and then getting a wife through vague means after that as far more assimilationist.
Like yeah, it could be the outcome of sour grapes in a MGTOW sense but there's also the case where any Asian man who is outspokenly against white supremacist structures in dating is labeled by boba libs as an "MRAsian" so I don't think it helps to be reductive like this.
my take on assimilation into whiteness is more along the lines of consciously shaping aspects of one's life to correlate with the white narrative that promises sex, power and success by default.
the narrative falls apart upon contact with reality and the result is that asian dudes end up in the manosphere next to the incels wondering what went wrong, difference being that asian manosphere thinks that they can tick boxes off a checklist and sigma grindset their way out of sexual emasculation. unfortunately, the checklist that they're using is still part of the white narrative that they by definition cannot belong to.
i can understand why the discourse around the situation might be upsetting and call for a more delicate touch than mine. maybe it's because i'm not really on twitter, but i just can't see the boba libs as people, so their opinions don't really carry any weight with me.
Sucks even harder for minorities who are targeted by sexual racism. There is some real dumpster fire discourse among diaspora East Asians about this, for example.
My coworkers tell me that they find Asian guys hot. That is, if you’re 6’2, have paper white skin, and look like a kpop idol
As degrading as that is, it's actually an improvement from the previous mainstream stance of "Ewww, no."
At least your coworkers are capable of acknowledging that Asian men can be tall and attractive instead of universally short scrawny nerds.
I always found the "Asian men are unnatractive/sexuless/whatever" thing utterly bizarre. How does normative racism like that even get started?
At the risk of sounding like a "representation matters" lib, there's basically zero depiction of Asian men in westoid media as positive role models or attractive partners. Even today it's incredibly rare to see any movies or TV with Asian male protagonists, and the Asian guy "getting the girl" is practically non-existent.
Add onto that a consistent trend of emasculated Asian men as weak, short, and feminine. This is not unlike how a lot of media and people still think of black women as aggressive and over masculine, at least to my understanding and hearing it from a few black women.
Lastly, there's still this idea that sexual racism is acceptable. Like if someone says "I don't want to date <race>" it's still broadly seen as a legitimate personal choice. Compare with someone saying "I don't want to work with <race>" or "I don't want to be friends with <race>".
Representation does matter; it’s just very much not everything. If we had FALGSC but only white people are allowed on TV that would still be bad
See, I’d see the silver lining if it was just other groups of people but in my experience Asian girls also tend to think they way too so it’s just :kaneki:
A chunk of any population, Asian or not, male or female or other, have that kind of mentality though. Everyone wants their 6'2 bodybuilder surgeon boyfriend or their D cup supermodel gamer girl or whatever. The people who get over that shit go on to live happy lives, the ones who don't are the ones who live bitter and lonely lives.
I'm my defense I am 6'2" and the idea of a 6'+ lady doctor person sweeping me off my feet and taking me away from all this is what I think about when I'm crying myself to sleep every night.
Idk everyone thinks being really tall is really cool, and it is in a lot of ways, but you'll also go most of your life without being able to stand with your heels on the ground and look your lover in their eyes. It might not seem like much, it might not be something anyone else worries about, but it makes me a little sad sometimes. There's a lot of tall privilege, a huge amount, but you're also fundamentally different from everyone around you. Being a foot taller than everyone else means your ears are above them and you can't follow conversations in noisy venues. You have to bend over or lift someone up to kiss them. People make all kinds of assumptions about you because a tall man must be confident, informed, dominant, and dangerous, Right? Right?
I keep ending up in charge of stuff just by virtue of being a man and the tallest person in the room. It feels cool for a while until you really start to think about what it means about how people view each other, how they conceptualize gender and human bodies. The whole "short kings" thing is, like... just holy shit? Being shorter doesn't make a man any less capable or attractive or present, or at least it shouldn't. But for many people it does and once you're aware of that you have to look at people around you differently because if they'll dismiss someone because they're shorter than average, and esteem people who are taller than average, what other nonsensical and prejudicial views do they hold?
Uft. Sorry for the rant, I just haven't thought about this in a while. But it's been a current throughout my life.
As a tall Asian dude I know exactly what you're talking about. Still, people have irrational preferences without really thinking about it.
I think it's really common for men to say they want a gf with large breasts, for example, and few dudes really consider the practical implications.
Totally. These days the first thing I think when I see someone with really big breasts is "oof, back pain".
I used to do a ton of sword fighting and everyone with boobs was constantly exchanging advice about the latest sports bras and which ones were actually supportive nad which ones were trash.
Yeah I’m 6’3” and while I don’t think I’d want to give up any of my height sometimes I see pictures of me with a group and I’m just like “Jesus Christ I’m a head and shoulders taller than everyone else”
Wait, short people can follow conversations in crowded places??? :scared: Now that I think about it that tracks but I never thought about that one.
No fr wtf is up with that. It happens all the time. I’ll be one of the least experienced people in the room and people will still look to me like I should know what’s going on.
When I have a woman or any afab person or a shorter person as my supervisor or manager I always stand behind them and very pointedly differ to them when customers inevitably direct questions to me. Otherwise people will just assume I know what's going on and it's like "dude i am wage labor, they literally have a masters in forestry I just move stuff around"
:shy: but there's still short scrawny nerds right
hardly qualifies as discourse, bunch of strivers uncritically regurgitating manosphere narratives and their parents' reactionary politics
The manosphere dudes are at least half the problem, but their existence certainly doesn't explain all those ridiculous articles from women trying to explain their fetish for mediocre white dudes as some sort of deep cultural awakening.
As for reactionary politics from parents, that's also a huge problem but ironically it's the manosphere dudes who tend to push back against that by advocating interracial dating.
the manosphere dudes are largely a product of the white fetishism that goes on in the asian female community, asian chicks post hart-celler really threw asian guys under the bus. someone on here a while back said this was a common sociological phenomenon for 1st/2nd generation immigrant women but i'm pretty sure the degree to which whiteness is fetishized in asian female communities remains an outlier, sociological phenomena notwithstanding.
the type of reactionary politics i was referring to mostly consists of standard american conservatism: rampant anti-blackness, bootstraps mentality, communists ruined our country, america was good to us, we wuz khanz/colonize the colonizer narratives, etc. as an aside, i'm really skeptical of the whole 'asian manosphere does interracial dating' thing, i just can't see the massive insecurities they carry around being good for even a normal relationship, much less an interracial one.
Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan really helped mainstream the idea of interracial dating and marriage. The book was a smash hit and so was the movie. It played constantly on Lifetime for years.
You don’t think being emasculated and dehumanized for centuries has any affect on the perception of Asian men?
being emasculated and dehumanized only affects asian manosphere insofar as they remain incapable of assimilating into whiteness (and its corresponding sexual benefits/social status) as easily as their female counterparts
masculinity is just a number to them, they have no conception of what it is outside of a quantitative (and overwhelmingly western) context
In my experience at least, the manosphere guys are most likely to reject assimilation into whiteness as a misguided relic of their parents' attitudes.
I would characterize the mainstream Asian diaspora view of keeping your head down, working doubly hard to overcome discrimination, and then getting a wife through vague means after that as far more assimilationist.
Like yeah, it could be the outcome of sour grapes in a MGTOW sense but there's also the case where any Asian man who is outspokenly against white supremacist structures in dating is labeled by boba libs as an "MRAsian" so I don't think it helps to be reductive like this.
my take on assimilation into whiteness is more along the lines of consciously shaping aspects of one's life to correlate with the white narrative that promises sex, power and success by default.
the narrative falls apart upon contact with reality and the result is that asian dudes end up in the manosphere next to the incels wondering what went wrong, difference being that asian manosphere thinks that they can tick boxes off a checklist and sigma grindset their way out of sexual emasculation. unfortunately, the checklist that they're using is still part of the white narrative that they by definition cannot belong to.
i can understand why the discourse around the situation might be upsetting and call for a more delicate touch than mine. maybe it's because i'm not really on twitter, but i just can't see the boba libs as people, so their opinions don't really carry any weight with me.