• stinky [any]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Yeah. No one is against fortification of food, here. India is suffering massively under its neoliberal government, which inherited the colonial-era policies of the British Raj. I can talk all day about the problems in India.

    But there’s a reason I said “historically” and “thousands of years.” It was to show that you don’t need meat to live. People in India, before colonialism, lived just as well as people anywhere else without consuming huge amounts of meat.

    The problems in India are not due to a lack of meat-consumption. It is due to colonialism and capitalism.

      • stinky [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Even hunter-gatherers mostly gathered, not hunted. Because hunting was risky but berries were not.

        No human civilisation throughout history has ever consumed as much meat as modern Westerners, who now try to rationalise it by claiming its “essential”.

        It’s not, and treating it as such, is already disastrous but is going to become catastrophic if pushed to countries like India and China (which you’re already succeeding at, so congrats I guess).

        • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 years ago

          Hunter gatherers mostly gathered, we agree, and ate far less meat than modern westerners. It is still true that they at far more more meat than post-agricultural humans, which aren't a group that was a good model for diet.

          I agree that meat consumption isn't necessary, and certainly not in quantity, but you will need additional supplementation. Without supplementation, a vegan diet is very difficult to make healthy. Your argument implied that wasn't true, which I took issue with.

          As far as the increasing meat consumption in India and China, we both know that's not because they're convinced it's necessary for health, it's because people eat more meat as they get richer. Promoting alternatives is an active measure that their governments must take, and that will be unpopular to some degree.

          • WoofWoof91 [comrade/them]
            ·
            2 years ago

            but you will need additional supplementation

            i haven't taken a supplement since 2012 because i can't afford them
            i just eat food that has the nutrients i need

            • stinky [any]
              ·
              2 years ago

              Modern Western diet is so disastrous for health (and environment) but no one points that out when saying “a vegan diet is very difficult to make healthy. “

              No, rice and beans, staple of billions of people for thousands of years, is less healthy than the current diet most westerners follow, apparently.

              • WoofWoof91 [comrade/them]
                ·
                edit-2
                2 years ago

                rice is weirdly expensive where i live, at least in bulk
                so i just eat things that are cheap here most of the time
                like carrots, peppers, pasta, tomatoes, so many beans, etc

                • stinky [any]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  rice is weirdly expensive where i live

                  I am so sorry. :meow-hug:

              • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
                ·
                2 years ago

                The staple diet between the agricultural and industrial revolution is not much healthier, if at all compared to the current western diet. You're making a reactionary argument that we did it in the past, therefore it is good.

                The majority of people living in post-agricultural civilizations suffered some form of malnutrition. It was adequate in terms of calories, but micronutrient deficiency was very widespread.

                • stinky [any]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  My god. I’m not telling anyone to literally just eat rice and beans.

          • glimmer_twin [he/him]
            ·
            2 years ago

            Fwiw I’ve been vegan for going on 4 years, vegetarian for almost a decade and the only supplement I’ve ever taken is b12. In theory I could just eat a bunch of seaweed/shiitake/nooch but I’m lazy so I take the b12.

    • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]
      ·
      2 years ago

      It was to show that you don’t need meat to live. People in India, before colonialism, lived just as well as people anywhere else without consuming huge amounts of meat.

      I think there probably was a lot of malnutrition in India, as well as every other country, before the introduction of greater caloric and nutrient intake from modern farming. Yes humans can live without those but it significantly raises child and infant mortality, women's death rate, and generally unpleasant life. Meat and egg consumption did solve those problems to an extent, although it may not be sustainable. Regardless, I don't think we can just go back to that diet. A new one is needed.