I think I know the answer but just checking…
According to the Supreme Court, yes, you can, if the arrest was illegal. But would such a case ever get to trial before the other cops kill you, and would they not kill you if a court thought you were justified?
Yo, do you remember the name of the case? I want to read up on this.
Bad Elk v. United States, however, upon further reading, this has been all but overturned by pretty much every state during the backlash against the Civil Rights Movement, under the reason that you should sue if you're unlawfully arrested. But then qualified immunity happened. So I retract my statement. Cops can do whatever they want to you and you have no legal recourse. The only way any cop will receive any punishment is if enough media attention is given to that case.
Thanks for the follow up.
Of course they fucking rolled it back.
It's less "rollback" & more "deliberate assault on established precedent", because the Bad Elk v United States case happened in 1900.
The only way any cop will receive any punishment is if enough media attention is given to that case.
And you have to have global protests which involve burning down several police stations in order for then to consider convicting even a single one.
The law in certain states is that you can
In practice however, it's very much a death wish unless you have a plan to take down every single cop ever
a plan to take down every single cop ever
Operation: Crimson Swarm is a go.
unless you have a plan to take down every single cop ever
Getting the pacman style kill screen when you get the highest score possible in parody redacted minecraft
Basically no. Officers of the Law are our goodest special smol bean domestic-terrorist bois, and you better leave them the heck alone while they kill you 😡
Depends on the context, people who survive shooting back during no knocks have gotten away with it.
If a uniformed pig on the street starts attacking you though, I’m unaware of any cases where somebody fought back and survived without being prosecuted
In Indiana at least, technically you can during a no knock raid.
Realistically they'd keep sending cops til they killed you I'm certain.
Realistically they’d keep sending cops til they killed you I’m certain.
That would be a really amusing movie. Trained assassin gets a wrongful no-knock raid and kills infinity cops for two hours, each raid becoming more and more over the top.
My recollection is that this was basically a sub-genre of action movie in the late-90's to early-2000's.
If you have like multiple cameras running and the cop is completely giving it away, saying "I'm going to kill you, specifically for fun, not because I fear for my life, which I do not" then maybe. You might get away with it if they stupidly catalogued their own criminal acts as part of some corruption scheme that is later uncovered. And maybe his department doesn't assassinate you afterward.
But in a normal circumstance, no. The justice system assumes its own justification, and if the cop dies then they'll assume the cop was doing his job to the letter, and any threatening actions by the cop are retroactively justified because you demonstrated that you were a dangerous person. It's an intentional catch-22.
If the cop is just a psychopath who decides that evening he wants to murder someone, then under the laws of the United States, it's illegal for you to survive that encounter.
EDIT: Like, to be clear, it would be treated as a serious crime if George Floyd had lived another day on this earth
Legally yes. Actually no way in hell. Cop tries to kill you, you kill cop, then more cops kill you.
Like, yes, you can, but other cops will try to kill you (making it effectively illegal) and the legal system will be stacked against you.
There was someone who was acquitted for a self-defense killing of a cop, sometime in recent decades. I distinctly recall reading about it, I'll try to find documentation about it.
EDIT: I might be remembering the Ruby Ridge case, with Randy Weaver killing the marshall who'd just killed a 14 year old... Almost positive it was somebody else and a state or local PD cop though.
Here are some:
https://archive.is/WbFP9 (helps to be white)
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/you-can-stand-your-ground-in-texas-even-when-you-kill-a-cop/ (helps if you're "a self-made oilman" in a "palatial home")
I was probably thinking of some no-knock raid or other, that seems to be the most common way people are acquitted of police killings as self-defense.
Here's a good example (wiki) of a self-defense argument succeeding for a police killing, but the pigs totally killed the guy a decade later as revenge:
In 1985 Penn's vehicle was pulled over in the Encanto area during a traffic stop by San Diego Police officers Thomas Riggs and Donovan Jacobs. Civilian police ride along Sara Pina-Ruiz was in the squad car when a physical altercation ensued resulting in Penn shooting and killing Riggs with his own service revolver, shooting and injuring Pina-Ruiz. Penn also shot and wounded Jacobs and ran him over with the police squad car while fleeing the scene.
Penn argued that he feared for his life and acted in self-defense after being attacked and beaten. Penn was acquitted in 1986 on the more serious murder charge for killing Riggs. In a second trial in 1987 Penn was acquitted of all lesser charges.
Lots of extenuating circumstances with this one (wiki) don't think anyone died, but damn:
Larry Davis (May 28, 1966 – February 20, 2008), later known as Adam Abdul-Hakeem, was an African–American man from New York City who gained notoriety in November 1986 for his shootout in the South Bronx with officers of the New York City Police Department, in which six officers were shot. Davis, asserting self-defense, was acquitted of all charges aside from illegal gun possession.
Wow, what a story of Davis/Abdul-Hakeem!
Need to read a bit more about this. Incredible that he shot six cops and was acquitted. Justice, for a black man in the Bronx? One little sparkle of hope.
Even pro-gun chuds go to prison for defensive gun use against illegal acts by cops.
(and it's hilarious when it happens)
