Sending good vibes to all of my trans comrades
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Yeah, misogyny sucks. Not having a girl body when you want one sucks more. The dysphoria you feel is a constant, droning, shitty feeling that won't ever fully go away. The fears that come from misogyny, and the pain from experiencing it, are both temporary in comparison.
Your 'frame' isn't as much of a factor as you probably think it is. And you can make your figure and frame appear more feminine through clothing besides. Like, as an easy example, even cis women are reliant on bras to make their breasts fit their figure better. You can make your hips look smaller by wearing high waists. Etc...
Your voice isn't going to not sound the way you want because voice training is an active process where you can control and change how you develop your voice. You don't just have a secret femme voice, you create one, and like all creations you can make it suit your wants and needs.
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That is actually really good to here. And yea, it really isn't going away.
Its (unsurprisingly) hard for me to judge. The only thing I know for sure is I'm really tall and I worry that the rest of me is going to be like that. I did look at some pictures of pre hrt trans women
I need to stop doing things like thisand I am shocked how much clothes can do.I know it is. I think that makes me more worried, that I won't be able to get that skill down. Or I'll be training "wrong" and need to unlearn both this voice and my new-but-not-what-I-actually-want voice. I hope you're right though.
You're not going to get taller and none of the effects of fat distribution are gonna make you look taller. If anything getting rounded hips will make you look shorter by balancing out your figure instead of having it be focused on your shoulders. Brains and shapes are weird sometimes.
Clothes are genuinely 90% of what makes you pass in the same way that hair is secretly 50% of your face. I half want to yell at people worried about passing that if they worried less and actually wore some women's clothing for once then they'd pass but that's not really productive and it's not quite that simple since certain clothes enphasise masc features while others emphasise femme ones. So high waist shit. It looks better than low waist anyways.
This won't happen, voice training is all about building exactly that skill.
You're not unlearning your voice, you're making a new one and then switching to it. Eventually you might forget a voice you had, but that's not the same thing. You can just make a new voice if the first one isn't perfect.
stupid contrarian shit
Uh if clothes are like 90% of passing then o shit waddup? Am I passing with just the 10%? Did I input a cheat code??
is it being skinny and having long hair, yeah probablySorry I don't mean for this to seem confrontational, not my intent, but I feel so weird hearing this when I'm walking around in a tank and sweats, or like a men's tee and an army jacket and jeans. I do really agree that yelling at people about needing to actually wear femme clothes would be cool, I see the point, I'm just curious. Grant me your knowledge of How Passing Works, o Seryph ✨
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Don't worry I didn't take it that way at all.
I guess what I mean is more like, your body passing is all about your figure right? And clothes can heavily influence your figure, up to what I would say is 90%.
For you, your body is slim and you've been on hormones long enough that your figure reads feminine. So if you're wearing clothes that fit then they're going to be shaped like your body, and then you'd pass despite not wearing traditionally femme clothes.
But also a tank is absolutely a femme piece of clothing.Men's tees similarly will fit your figure if they're in your size, and so even though they're men's clothes they'd look femme on you. (and if they're bigger then they'll actually make you seem smaller, which similarly makes you pass as femme more)For me, my figure right now is very androgynous, but I can make it appear a lot more feminine just by wearing femme clothing. Since my figure is androgynous, it doesn't really matter what femme clothing I wear since my figure will be ambiguous regardless. So wearing something femme will make me pass even if I'm wearing it in a way that doesn't accentuate femininity in my figure. This goes both ways for me right now though, if I wear masculine clothing (that isn't too big for me) I'll be read as a man. Ambiguous clothing will defer to whatever the rest of my presentation is, but if everything is ambiguous I'll be read as masc. I basically just need to avoid accentuating masculine qualities and I'm fine.
For someone with a more masculine figure, they can use clothes to hide their masculine aspects. High waist bottoms being the big example that I love and wear all the time since they make your hips look wider and waist thinner. Other examples include things which deemphasise your shoulders such as accessories that draw your eye away from them towards your chest or shirts that emphasise your arms proper. Etc... Etc... I still benefit from these so I still use these tricks a lot. Plus high waists are pretty and I love them.
So essentially, I would say that your clothes are still 90% of what make you pass not because they are feminine necessarily but rather because they don't obscure your figure's femininity when you wear them. If you wanted to not pass you could apply the tricks masc bodies need in reverse to emphasise your masculinity and look more masc again, essentially. So by not doing that, the clothes you wear are still a part of how you pass even if technically it's your body doing the work. Yes this is me twisting the meaning a bit to fit what I initially said, but I do genuinely think this is how it works.
Obviously whether a person's face passes is a whole different can of worms hence why I mentioned long hair being half of that whole affair. You need both to actually pass though.
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Okay thanks
Realising that being on hormones a really long time actually does make a notable difference is kinda rad. I know the babytrans hate waiting, but Hey, just pop some pills for a while, it's gonna slap!! I was gonna say though yeah, as discussed in the SMALL SHIRT BIG PANTS/BIG SHIRT SMALL PANTS comment thread, sometimes "androgynous" clothes can contribute positively toward your figure. I seem small :> I thought men wore tanks too, and mine are pretty loose, but aight I guess I'll take the W ✨
Hm okay, so it's less literally that clothes are 90% on their own, but more how they interact with the rest of your presentation and form, and also putting some intentionality into the way you present (orange book) helps a lot.
High waisted stuff fucks I had no idea you could de-emphasise your shoulders though, that is good to know. Look at all this stuff I kind of understand!!!
Okay this tracks, I think I get it now. There's a lot more going on than in the initial statement, very cool. I'm learning the stuff!!!!
Shouts to having long femme hair also ✨
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Yeah basically I'm saying if you're fashion-pilled passing becomes easier and even if you're not it helps a lot to incorporate some basic ideas.
Yeah the shoulders thing can be done! I'm gonna take an example of a dress I actually own to show what I mean since it incorporates several of the tricks into it:
Here there are two things going on, the first is that the white chest draws your eyes toward it away from your shoulders. The second is that the princess sleeves emphasise the forearms and thereby also draw attention away. I love the princess sleeves btw they're so fun and flowy.
There's other ways you can deemphasise them too, angled sleeves on a short sleeve for instance can do it by angling it so your eyes don't rest on them. Or you can wear capelets! I love capelets.
Love long femme hair, simple as.
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I am un-fashion-pilled, I dunno what stuff is, got the wrong kinda autism sadly :/
Yo that's cool, seeing an example as you describe it is super handy. De-emphasised shoulders, how about that shit!!
SIMPLE AS
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Yeah I always like to have an example when explaining fashion concepts. That fashion effort post I keep wanting to finish was going to have one but I'm too busy and eepy all the time to work on it.
Also thanks for being a contrarian. 💜 Talking about this fashion stuff improved my mood somewhat
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I'm still looking forward to whenever you can work on it!!! Cool post idea!!!!!
Lmao you're welcome Glad it did!! It is fun tbh.
How easy is this? I’ve just started voice training and one of my biggest fears rn is that I’ll spend all my time working on a voice that’s “wrong” and then I’ll have to start over
Depends, I have had 2 different femme voices since I had taken a long break between when I first tried voice training and my second attempt. What I would note is that the second time you try to make a femme voice it is much easier than the first since you already built up a lot of the skills. So for me making my second was very easy. But I could see it being a bit harder if you didn't take that break like I did. I think it would still be easier than the first time though.
Thank god for that. I am very excited for the round hips.
Honestly I don't think that's bad advice. I can't yet, but I am looking forward to it, especially high wasted clothes/shorts.
The voice training stuff is comforting, thank you. I didn't realize how it worked (because I haven't really tried yet). I didn't see this earlier but I appreciate it, this is helpful information for me.