Except PSL turned their votes into real on the ground organizing in disadvantaged communities while the Green Party turned their votes into seething liberals.
PSL is the only Socialist group that does anything in the black neighborhoods here. DSA will table outside JHU to talk to kids who will become millionaires within the next 15 years while PSL organizes and radicalizes entire section 8 apartment buildings in their anti-slumlord campaign. They actually have old black grannies becoming MLs and joining the party. This is the green party
It's insane how much such a small group of dedicated cadres can do. They are admittedly a very tiny chapter here (though they're in the process of doubling their ranks) but from what they can achieve in the neighborhoods, you'd think they were a massive nonprofit. It's the dedication that can move mountains.
Why are you confused about people supporting the party who they agree with? They put together this entire campaign why the hell wouldn't I give them my vote? What the fuck has the green party done for me to support them?
In my experience, their organization is a disaster & they are incredibly ineffectual given their member base. But they still do some useful work in my city.
i think all these groups are good to varying extents and should learn from each other and maybe figure out a way to actually create a left wing power structure in this country by organizing together around different issues
Millions of people see their name on the ballot without knowing who they are. Then they see a bunch of people voted for them after the election, and a tiny fraction of them look into it and get involved. Even if 10,000 PSL votes translate into one new cadre, it's better than everything the green party has done for the last 20 years.
Look at the conversation we are having. It's about Howie vs La Riva for a spot they won't ever win. The fact that it's PSL and not the CPUSA or WWP or SAlt that we are talking about matters. Even if the party will never win an election, having PSL on the ballot and getting votes legitimizes them in a way that other parties can't.
I don't give a shit what the green party does. They're just a bunch of crystal healer boomers and conspiracy cranks that lose elections and do literally nothing else. What I want is for Communists and other revolutionary minded socialists to quit their microparties and join PSL and do good work on the ground bringing actual Proles into the ranks and not just PMCs with politics brain
Whatever dude vote for the crank party. I'm sure they will get 5% and then the government will give them public fundarinos and the government definitely won't just change the laws, then in 40 years when we definitely still have a liberal democracy we can get a GP supermajority and pass a bill establishing socialism :ferret:
PSL is objectively gaining traction from running in elections and one tiny chapter of PSL does more good work in a month than the Green Party has its entire existence
Because objectively PSL getting more votes legitimizes them and draws politically active people towards them. That's literally the whole reason for running. You guys just want to own the libs by splitting their vote. I'm not a child and I see the benefit of voting for PSL.
As someone who's been guilty of this in the past, let's not call honest comrades who disagree with us "wreckers". Especially over such a meaningless issue.
5% election fundarinos, at least if the feds fuck them out of it
They will strip funding if Libertarians or Greens break 5%. That's not a question.
literally why vote PSL outside of some magic wishful thinking that getting a fraction of a percent or changing that to 1% will “get us more supporters”
If someone asks me why I support La Riva, I can give an honest answer. That's about it. "Electoral strategizing" is embarrassing when the rules will always change to fuck the working class.
He does not recognize that the existing state must be crushed for any political change to happen. That's a huge misunderstanding of reality.
Man it’s a shame constantly changing rules isn’t useful propaganda to serve to radicalize the fucked over working class
Correct. It is not useful propaganda. Everyone knows politics is rigged.
We should vote for a party that has 0% chance of prompting any of that to happen
From what I've seen this year, PSL has done significantly more to radicalize the working class than Greens. I have seen literally nothing from the Greens.
They are just a bourgeois democratic party. All they do is run elections. The working class needs mass popular politics to create change. The Greens are not serious about building that. They are, at best, not helpful.
What part of "I'm voting for La Riva because she's the only one whose politics I support" do you not understand?
I never said that we're going to "crush the state" by voting. I said that I do not agree with Howie's politics. And I'm not going to make up some lie about why I support him.
you’re out here with this VOTE PSL VOTES = MORE SUPPORT
I literally never said this.
Like literally why the fuck not just vote greens SINCE IT’S A FUCKING BOURGEOIS ELECTION THAT DOESN’T MATTER and then actually put your real life effort into organizing with the PSL?
Why, exactly, should I vote for Greens? You never gave an answer to this that was convincing. "Well, maybe this time the ruling parties change the rules, people will care" is not convincing.
I'm already voting for a local judge who decriminalized fare evasion on public transit.
And people talk about the election. I've explained to quite a few people in my life my genuine support for La Riva, and I've convinced a few to learn more about the party.
Except PSL turned their votes into real on the ground organizing in disadvantaged communities while the Green Party turned their votes into seething liberals.
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:maduro_coffee-big:
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PSL is the only Socialist group that does anything in the black neighborhoods here. DSA will table outside JHU to talk to kids who will become millionaires within the next 15 years while PSL organizes and radicalizes entire section 8 apartment buildings in their anti-slumlord campaign. They actually have old black grannies becoming MLs and joining the party. This is the green party
That’s sick af and I didn’t know any of this until now.
It's insane how much such a small group of dedicated cadres can do. They are admittedly a very tiny chapter here (though they're in the process of doubling their ranks) but from what they can achieve in the neighborhoods, you'd think they were a massive nonprofit. It's the dedication that can move mountains.
Why are you confused about people supporting the party who they agree with? They put together this entire campaign why the hell wouldn't I give them my vote? What the fuck has the green party done for me to support them?
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damn dude you’re getting drug around by the hair this whole thread. maybe just drop the green shite and join the party itself
Lol
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Are they though
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In my experience, their organization is a disaster & they are incredibly ineffectual given their member base. But they still do some useful work in my city.
i think all these groups are good to varying extents and should learn from each other and maybe figure out a way to actually create a left wing power structure in this country by organizing together around different issues
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No I wasn't lol I'd never say the DSA was good
ah well that's cool i'll give em that i guess lol
This is why I refuse to vote for them lmao, their "goals" are unattainble.
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no but see its a "strategic" waste of time lol
Millions of people see their name on the ballot without knowing who they are. Then they see a bunch of people voted for them after the election, and a tiny fraction of them look into it and get involved. Even if 10,000 PSL votes translate into one new cadre, it's better than everything the green party has done for the last 20 years.
Look at the conversation we are having. It's about Howie vs La Riva for a spot they won't ever win. The fact that it's PSL and not the CPUSA or WWP or SAlt that we are talking about matters. Even if the party will never win an election, having PSL on the ballot and getting votes legitimizes them in a way that other parties can't.
I don't give a shit what the green party does. They're just a bunch of crystal healer boomers and conspiracy cranks that lose elections and do literally nothing else. What I want is for Communists and other revolutionary minded socialists to quit their microparties and join PSL and do good work on the ground bringing actual Proles into the ranks and not just PMCs with politics brain
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Whatever dude vote for the crank party. I'm sure they will get 5% and then the government will give them public fundarinos and the government definitely won't just change the laws, then in 40 years when we definitely still have a liberal democracy we can get a GP supermajority and pass a bill establishing socialism :ferret:
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PSL is objectively gaining traction from running in elections and one tiny chapter of PSL does more good work in a month than the Green Party has its entire existence
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Because objectively PSL getting more votes legitimizes them and draws politically active people towards them. That's literally the whole reason for running. You guys just want to own the libs by splitting their vote. I'm not a child and I see the benefit of voting for PSL.
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As someone who's been guilty of this in the past, let's not call honest comrades who disagree with us "wreckers". Especially over such a meaningless issue.
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Why vote Green?
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Why do you need more evidence lmao
They will strip funding if Libertarians or Greens break 5%. That's not a question.
If someone asks me why I support La Riva, I can give an honest answer. That's about it. "Electoral strategizing" is embarrassing when the rules will always change to fuck the working class.
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He does not recognize that the existing state must be crushed for any political change to happen. That's a huge misunderstanding of reality.
Correct. It is not useful propaganda. Everyone knows politics is rigged.
From what I've seen this year, PSL has done significantly more to radicalize the working class than Greens. I have seen literally nothing from the Greens.
They are just a bourgeois democratic party. All they do is run elections. The working class needs mass popular politics to create change. The Greens are not serious about building that. They are, at best, not helpful.
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What part of "I'm voting for La Riva because she's the only one whose politics I support" do you not understand?
I never said that we're going to "crush the state" by voting. I said that I do not agree with Howie's politics. And I'm not going to make up some lie about why I support him.
I literally never said this.
Why, exactly, should I vote for Greens? You never gave an answer to this that was convincing. "Well, maybe this time the ruling parties change the rules, people will care" is not convincing.
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How much time do you think voting takes lol.
I'm already voting for a local judge who decriminalized fare evasion on public transit.
And people talk about the election. I've explained to quite a few people in my life my genuine support for La Riva, and I've convinced a few to learn more about the party.
:cope:
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