- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse
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I forgot how ignorant and self-righteous Reddit liberals were. The ones I've seen are easily the loudest and dumbest people on this network of federated instances. They have their "conviction" and "is wrong" sliders completely maxed out.
You're right I haven't completely purged the liberal inside me and I hate myself for it being there still
spoiler
Thank you so much for showing me that not every liberal I meet here will be ignorant and self-righteous. I can no longer say that has been the totality of my experience with them. I now have hope that my next encounter will be just as positive as this one was.
Look, you started hot in this thread but tired after a few comments. They adjusted, you didn't, and you got rocked; it happens. Hit the showers and we'll get after it early tomorrow with some film.
Is there a base case or do the layers of irony go on to infinity?
Person: says something
Another person: this other person has no nuance
Yet another person: this other person has no nuance, ironically
Yet another person: this other person has no nuance, ironically
(ad infinitum)
Maybe this is just dialectics, although a little snarky
In what way is making a kinda-funny Marxism joke indicative of being a bot? The previous comment to mine references Dialectics, because the convo is just "A, B, sassy A, sassy B. I merely tied in Historical Materialism, Marx's grand Dialectical theory, to overplay the goofy small back and forth.
Are you sure you're not a bot? Do you have free will?
Okay just... there's no such thing as 'self' projecting. It's just projecting. That's redundant.
And nothing they said is untrue. What kind of self flagellation is required to just say a type of political person is bad? Do you need permission from a conservative to talk shit about their faults?
They are a hexbear user. All the content coming in from that instance is "DuMb LiBrUlS"
In fairness dumb liberals have a hegemonic control of media, government, culture, and public opinion in the US and most of the EU, with the exception being almost entirely fascists.
I hate to quote a fascist beast like Patton, but; " "They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards."
We don't have to go looking for liberal ignorance, violence, cowardice, and foolishness. It's everywhere in every direction.
Woah there, you can't forget about the Russia/China apologia as well
Says the natoid lmao
Two things can actually be bad at once you know. Understanding geo politics doesn't mean support. The world isn't a marvel movie.
Not only can 2 things be bad but 2 things can be different degrees of bad.
I'd rather live in a country where I can openly criticize those in power without risk to my personal well-being and have the possibility for pushing my government towards positive ends.
Yeah there's some risk associated with protesting in the US but at least I don't have to worry about the going to the gulag or a tiananmen square situation.
I mean, I should have known you'd regurgitate the propaganda, but it's always a disappointment anyway. Such a stupid response, too. That's basically a non-sequitur. For one, there being two evils does not necessitate siding with the lesser. You can acknowledge there are no good guys, and instead pick the position most likely to lead to the least amount of suffering over all. That is and will always be peace, but you blood thirsty natoids just can't imagine that. Your response is also dumb as hell given that modern Russia is a capitalist state, not the USSR lmao. Bringing up Gulags is a bit like bringing up slave plantations in the USA.... except the USSR is actually completely dissolved so its even less relevant. For the record, the US still legally permits slavery in the instance of criminal conviction. Say, sure would be wild if the US disproportionately policed and convicted black and brown people, wouldn't it? That'd seem like a loophole legitimizing slavery over time! But that's just whatabouttism so feel free to ignore it like a good little natoid. You're grossly ignorant regarding tiananmen square as well, but I won't bother citing anything since you'll just dismiss it out of hand.
Instead, I'll ask what are your thoughts on the repression of Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street, Ireland Independence, French Yellow Vests/Public Benefits/Police Racism, and so on and so forth in "Free" and "Democratic" countries? What about the United States having the highest incarceration rate in the world, largely filled with black and brown people subjected to forced labor while in prison? What would happen if your "protest" did more than carry signs in publicly designated and permitted areas? Wouldn't you be beaten, arrested, and convicted under the fullest extent of the law? So sorry that you're so cucked you can't imagine doing more than asking your leaders nicely for change and politely going home when they say no, but real protest is certainly illegal in "Free" Western countries, and if you ever actually engaged in it you'd see exactly how brutal those governments can be.
Principled communists aren't unapologetic supporters of every single thing socialist countries do/have done, but we take issue with the nakedly hypocritical framing from Western powers. The atomic unit of propaganda is emphasis. You ignorantly reduce entire foreign countries to a single word/event while myopically ignoring the conditions before and after, but hem and haw and whine about nuance and procedure and the necessity of the barbarity around us every day... When you're not ignoring it outright that is. That's what makes you a useful idiot to our own system of oppression. It's an embarrassment.
Yeah there's some risk associated with protesting in the US but at least I don't have to worry about the going to the gulag
Good thing protestors in the US and UK don't get arrested on flimsy charges or crippled or murdered by cops
Snowden, Assange, manning, dozens of maimed protestors and the largest prison system in the world would like a word with you after seeing what you just posted here.
I swear to god I'll buy sync premium if they give the ability to sort by controversial. This is the stupidest more redditesque thread I've run into and i don't want to miss anymore.
I'll take that over believing pig shit memes are reasonable discourse any day.
I guess that's why it's so popular on hexbear. Thanks for clearing that up.
Axiom 2: one must first make a ppb comment in order for someone to reply with ppb.
I defy you to find a use of that that wasn't preceded by something that deserves to literally be shit upon. I dare you.
Do you think that is intended as discourse? Or might it be intended as the opposite of that?
Funny I would say the sane about the Marxists here most of whom seem to only be educated through social media/forums and most of whom seem to have no formal education in sociology/anthropology/and most especially economics. The number of times where it becomes clear that a Marxist is arguing from a conclusion is too high to be ignored.
Watch out people we got an econ 101 grad amongst us, if we're not careful he'll pull out his Mas Colell textbook and start babbling about maximizing utility curves and general equilibrium
Nah you have someone with a political science degree and a minor in econ. I have talked to many people who seem to have no formal education in the listed fields and refer back to things like breadtube as a valid source.
I can't speak fir your education but I have chatted with someone who claimed to be a Marxist who was convinced that DPRK is a communist state rather than a hereditary autocracy. Not ever Marxist is educated and some are bad at reasoning.
political science degree
Imagine boasting about having a degree in modern-day phrenology.
You see, this graph shows the Slavic brainpan cannot comprehend liberal institutions ....
I wish people would just lead with this shit so we'd know to ignore them.
you have someone with a political science degree and a minor in econ
Not even trying to dunk, just realize that this is not impressive, and certainly not authoritative. When someone questions your expertise the two acceptable responses are:
- Yes, I am an actual expert, with extensive schooling and/or relevant work experience.
- I'm not claiming to be an expert, but here's where I'm getting my information, where are you getting yours?
They said I have 101. I have a greater understanding then that which is what Im replying to. Im not pretending to be an expert and frankly I don't know why you would think that.
We know where they are getting the information from the problematic people Im talking about do not understand their sources and frequently decide that Marx was right and avoid learning when he was wrong ir when we have gained a clearer understanding.
For fucks sake some seem to think Marxism ended with Marx
You claim to know something about Marx, ok let's test that knowledge of yours with the simplest possible question
According to Marx what are the sources of capitalist profit?
Just giving you a second chance to answer the simplest possible question about Marx. I'm guessing you didn't see the notification the first time given you've been active after it was posted, and you could very easily demonstrate your knowledge of Marxism.
You know, cause otherwise people are going to think you were lying about learning about Marxism.
Nah you have someone with a political science degree and a minor in econ. I have talked to many people who seem to have no formal education in the listed fields and refer back to things like breadtube as a valid source.
So the two most "priesthood class of capital" useless degrees lol.
Read Capital, the economics you've learned still haven't grappled with it successfully.
Edit: you claim to have read Marx. Please, tell me how automation connects to the tendency of the rate of profit to drop according to Marx. It's one of the core parts of his analysis so it should be easy to remember.
This is extra funny because explaining how neoclassical economics is a religion rather than any form of scientific or even material system is a common criticism made by Anthropologists.
But anthropology doesn't have the nice graphics and the math that doesn't really have any empirical data behind it, anthropology isn't a real science unlike neoclassical economics!
dude almost everything told about the DPRK is pulled out of some right winger's ass
The DPRK is socialist and not a hereditary autocracy. It has been the consistent direction of the head of the executive branch to diffuse authority to other offices, but nearly everything you have ever heard about this country was a lie.
It literally has handed power down from father to son twice. That is a hereditary system. As the citizens cannot advocate for a change in leaders, a change in direction of the party or an entirely new political system they are authoritarian.
DPRK is a hereditary autocracy.
DPRK is a hereditary autocracy.
I don't think just repeating your statement over and over can manifest it into reality, but good on you for trying
I didn't do that. I explained how the top authority has been handed from father to son in a single family and then demonstrated how they are authoritarian. You might be able to be authoritarian and socialist but you cannot have a hereditary power structure and attempt anything looking like socialism.
Just because you don't like facts doesn't change them. If that was possible communism would have been achieved multiple times
It literally has handed power down from father to son twice.
It has had sons win elections and then hold the office twice. We can call it dynastic in a sense similar to US political dynasties, but that's different from being literally hereditary.
As the citizens cannot advocate for a change in leaders, a change in direction of the party or an entirely new political system
Citation needed
Are you suggesting they had a free and fair election? Let's not be that stupid.
Nah you have someone with a political science degree and a minor in econ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWxn4mrNJxQ
He's got a MINOR in economics! And he's here to tell us all about how beautiful and elegant the math is. You can't really appreciate it unless you step into the rarified air surrounding an econometrics professor, you would understand if you ever tried it.
poli sci is literally nothing. I have a background in social and hard science, from either point of view it's bullshit.
The only field more embarrassing than PoliSci is arguably EvoPsych, with the caveat that most academics don't consider EvoPscyh to be a real field.
political science degree
Oh man I would never admit that unforced.
Bro I'm completing a dissertation in political economy and I hate myself for it. The world is an easy place if you assume the gospel drivel spewed in orthodox econ departments is all there is. How about you go read up on the Cambridge Capital debate and then tell me how robust a "science" economics is. While you're at it eat a crayon, maybe you'll shit out a more intelligent comment next time.
First why do you think that you or only Marxists are aware of the limitations of social sciences? If you really do have a background in the subject surely you remember this is frequently discussed or it least it was in my programs.
Second if you do have a degree or are pursuing one then you aren't the person Im talking about. Im talking about the person who-reads Marx and maybe Kropotkin and decides things ended there.
For someone attacking my intelligence/education, which you know nothing of, you are making a ton of unsupported statements. Hypocrisy isn't a good look
I'm not talking about the inherent limitations of social science, I'm responding to your absurd attitude that somehow formal education makes your ideas inherently superior/above critique, and I named a specific example of theoretical failure of orthodox economics as an example of the entire project being basically woo. Lots of aristotelean scholastics wrote the dumbest shit imaginable about physics for a thousand years, and their thought was funded, reproduced, and taught as authoritative by formal education the entire time; progress was only made when criticism came from outside the academy and overcame it. Much like then, our contemporary "Political Science" and "Economics" departments are nearly completely captured by a dead-end ideology/research project, but still have the support of the ruling class so they keep cranking along misinforming more and more students every year. You claiming advanced understanding of the matter is the equivalent of an Aristotelean physicist or Lamarkian biologist sticking their nose up and saying learning outside of the academy is somehow less than their own. That's worse than just being wrong, it's wrong and using elitism to refuse to recognize it. The Black Panthers went into the poorest and least educated communities in America, and they taught people Marxist theory while they taught them to read. What do you think well to do Nixon Republicans had to say about their education? That's where you stand right now looking down on folks engaging in education outside of the academy itself.
Also, lots of Marxists are tired of dumb liberals reciting the same garbage authoritatively while never questioning basic undercurrents of their own ideological world view. So sorry they have reached a conclusion and don't want to rehash baby's first socialism with every shmuck who thinks their poli-sci degree makes them an expert.
My point is that some subjects, like modern economics, are best taught in academic situations because of how complex they are. There is simply too much higher level math in neoclassical economics to learn on your own unless you are a math wiz.
Why are you presuming liberals are dumb? Liberal societies are functioning in the real world while the most successful attempts at socialism are those that moved towards hybrid economies (Vietnam and China).
Arguing from a conclusion means you have decided what is correct and then seek proof to demonstrate that which is the opposite of how scientific reasoning works. You should probably be familiar with that term if you are not.
You're still not getting it lol. Neoclassical economics is theoretically standing out way over a cliff and simply refusing to look down like Wiley coyote. Your appeal to mathematics is unintentionally hilarious, because it was physics envy and the chasing of mathematical models over real life evidence/coherent theory that led the field astray to begin with lmao. You can come up with all kinds of fancy models and as much mathematics as you like, but none of it matters if you're basing it on incorrect axioms.
"Functioning in the real world" - oh yeah for sure. Burning the environment down and cooking the biosphere while forever chemicals and microplastics permanently saturate the ecosystem. Liberal societies are "Functioning" in so far as they're not actively failed states this very moment, but that is accomplished on the back of neo-imperialism, unequal exchange with the global south, and unresolvable contradictions inherent to neo-liberalism/capitalism. A car driving 80 mph towards a cliff is working, sure, but is that a desirable state of affairs?
Also take a quick look around my guy. We're not in a laboratory. I'm calling you an idiot on the internet. Not every conversation is the platonic ideal of scientific pursuit you nerd.
And Im trying to remain a better class of person than you because you have demonstrated nothing other than that you are the exact type of uneducated person Im talking about. Your incapability to reason civilly or rationally will not help you even in the most utopian Marxist society.
Goddamn. You both treated him with more respect and time/attention than he deserved AND savaged him. I love Hexbear users. I was running out of patience and felt my fingers itching for a ppb soon.
You do not know what I do and do not know. I am aware that the theoretical path to communism is not the same for all but China keeps moving further away from ANY path to socialism or communism. Heck they really doubled down on authoritarianism when they allowed Xi to permanently hold office. Is a dictatorial state run for privately profit a path to socialism? Oh shit no it isn't
Why are you presuming liberals are dumb?
There are several incredible replies to you in this thread that have completely gone unappreciated or over your head or both.
Waver and flounder and try to browbeat, why not drop your monocle into your glass while you're at it. You got nothing
Liberal thinks the shitty neoclassical economics taught in 99% of universities is economics itself. Imagine my surprise.
I was able to take classes in Marxist economics taught by Marxists.
Why would you be so arrogantly stupid to presume what I know when you haven't met me?
Lmao if you think anyone who mildly critiques capitalism is a marxist, I want to live in your world
Im not talking about critiques of capitalism. Im talking about uneducated "Marxists" whose criticisms are based on that lack of understanding.
There are educated Marxists whose critiques can have value but if someone thinks economics ends with Marx then that's the person Im talking about.
but if someone thinks economics ends with Marx then that's the person Im talking about.
Find me one classical Marxist on the entire website. Virtually no one thinks this among Marxists, hence why they are mostly Marxist-Leninists. The second name isn't appended just because we like the guy.
You might be surprised how many times discussions with the group Im talking about think all econ ends with Marx or sometimes Kropotkin. Im not talking about people who are actually well read on Marxist ideologies.
How does that work? He critiques other economists. There's no reason to claim he is where it starts and Im fairly sure he would disagree with that claim.
Or some of us might have multiple sociology degrees and/or are in academia. But I'm sure if they wrote comments about Marx (or Weber or Gramsci or Veblen etc) you'd just assume they got it from wikipedia anyway. Though I'm not sure why that's a bad thing. It's not like it makes a difference whether someone read primary texts online or overpaid at the college bookstore. It's the same information. The fact that anyone has a desire to learn, better themselves, and then try to use that knowledge is admirable and a service to society at large. More people should try it.
Im not talking about people who are educated with degrees taught by experts. Im talking about the person who only learns about this stuff through places like facebook, tiktok, youtube and to a lesser extent reddit (one of the major mods on the econ subs, /u/robthorpe, is a Marxist).
The problem with learning from forums is as a novice you have no way of telling that the person running the forum has any idea what they are talking about.
I think some subjects are better learned when you have actual experts to turn to and you might not have that on say the facebook group you ran across.
For example there's a reply here from someone complaining that modern economics still hasn't answered everything from Kapital which ignores that modern economics and economics of Marx's time are very different in methodology and focus.
Marxists are hardly alone in arguing from a conclusion. That pretty much describes all of economics and most of political science. Liberal economics in particular could easily be retitled Just So Stories, With Jargon.
That's simply not true and strongly suggests that you either did not understand who I am talking about or ypu have no education in the field.
Im talking about the people who come to Marxism by deciding it is correct and then seek to only pursue information or sources that back Marxism rather than learning about the various flaws that absolutely exist in Marxism as they do in any ideologically driven perspective. If you actually study econ you should have some grasp on the flaws of a system in broad terms.
Liberal economists do exactly the same thing and if you can't see it, it's the water you're swimming in.
The fact that you are assigning an ideology to neoclassical economists strongly suggests you have no formal education in the field. Most economists abandoned the idea of "schools" in the 1960s.
Fun fact: Everyone has an ideology. Just yelling "I abandon my ideology" doesn't change that. Go ask an anthropologist they'll explain it too you.
You really need to look into the concept of cultural hegemony. Your ignorance as you speak with authority is embarrassing but it isnt an innate quality you have and can be corrected.
You see, the Political Scientist major brainpan is maladapted to reflection, and quite simply incapable of grasping such remarkable and sophisticated concepts like "Hegemony."
learning about the various flaws that absolutely exist in Marxism
Marxists are more aware of these flaws than you, lol. Learn what scientific socialism is and how it connects to developing and refining theory.
Even im weirded out by how thoroughly the left was suppressed on reddit and other platforms. People on reddit only saw themselves mirrored and thought they were the only ones who existed.
Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.
You're so vain
You don't think that this post is about you, do you?
What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There's no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.
And don't even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I've gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it's some leftist telling me I would "get the wall" when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they'll go after "traitors" soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there's far more Republicans, and they're far more organized than left authoritarians.
bOtH sIdEs
This is why libs get clowned on so hard. You claim to support "the only viable left leaning political party", and yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values. Remember, segregation wasn't ended because black people voted, blood was spilt in the streets. Same with the LGBT community, see the stonewall uprising, aka, the first pride parade.
I don't care how you vote, but if you can't see the difference between an anarchist engaging in direct action against an oppressive state and fascists doing hate crimes; well, I'd say it's time to get off your high horse and do a little introspection.
yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.
Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.
this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.
Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.
I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
No need to be a condescending dick.
If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.
If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.
You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.
Like I said, attempting to degrade the only left leaning political coalition means someone is hostile to any sort of positive left leaning activism. If that doesn't describe a given anarchist, then what I said doesn't apply to them. If it does, then they might as well be a Trumpster.
Who or what is this sole "left leaning political coalition"? If you're referring to Democrats they are neither left leaning nor a coalition. They are a center-right political party. Coalition implies multiple parties. And the Democratic party isn't exactly known for activism, unless you're counting fundraising events.
I’ve participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.
Protests !== organizing. Organizing achieves political change. Protest does not. Leftists know how to organize, liberals do not.
If liberals don't know how to organize and leftists do, why does the Democratic party dominate elections
Because leftists understand that actual progress doesn’t come from voting?
This is unnecessary aggro, and you are the only one here making sweeping assumptions.
They must mean that referendum we had to overturn Roe v. Wade, or the one that got us universal healthcare
No I think they mean the 2016 Democrat primary and the subsequent election
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward.
Did you actually do any studying about socialism during this phase, or is this the "Che Guevara T-Shirt" socialism I've heard so much about?
We both know it wasn't even Che Guevara T-Shirt socialism. It was definitely "I think the nordic model is pretty cool" socialism.
Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power
The US isn't a democracy, you can't build coalitions with people who want to destroy everything you stand for, direct action got George Floyd justice not votes, and the people you back turned around and decided to fund the police to record levels, it's a war not an electoral campaign
I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.
Do you know how to communicate in anything other than thought terminating clichés?
The Democrats have significant political power how's that working out?
This is delusional. Direct action absolutely has its place, but all the things you mentioned were ultimately won at the ballot box. As it should be. Don't let a childish revolution fetish blind you to what constitutes a viable framework for lasting progress.
It's funny how libs think they can tell me when direct action is necessary, and it's always in the past tense, never in the present.
Not an ML. And certainly don't think I'm the only leftist. Lots of different types of leftists, many I disagree with. But unless you're opposed to capitalism, then you're a liberal, not a leftist.
Yup, like I said, lots of leftists I disagree with. That includes ML's. What's your point exactly?
Liberals aren't leftists, but there's a whole world of political thought to the left of liberals.
I am a ML and everything I have seen of Jenkem's posting here makes me think they are probably a leftist.
We probably don't agree on everything, but they're no liberal.
Hey now. Anarchists and Maoists and a bunch of others are leftists too.
Liberals are not.
Can you define direct action for me? What do you think it is?
the only viable left leaning political party in the US
I vote for Democrats because shit, why not? But what is the worth of a party that:
- Does not function as a party (single defectors routinely kill major legislation without consequence)
- Is incapable of countering the rising tide of fascism, or unwilling to do so
- Has no plan to address the Supreme Court, which will continue to kill anything legitimately good if left unchecked
- Is too beholden to capital to push even the most tepid climate change legislation (the Green New Deal)
- Constantly attacks its left flank, preferring to chase the votes of suburban reactionaries
- Isn't even reliably pro-labor
- Tailed popular movements on all sorts of civil rights issues
- Still can't be bothered to even de-schedule marijuana, the most slam-dunk popular policy one could imagine + a huge driver of mass incarceration
- Is on basically the same page as Republicans with respect to foreign policy
- Generally offers nothing besides "at least we're not as bad as Republicans, most of the time"
Where is that party going? It's never going to meaningfully address climate change, it offers only crumbs to the working class, and any social change has to be led from the outside.
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There is no "viable left leaning political party in the US" lmao. You are a far right country. Both parties are far right. If you were over here in the UK you would all be tories and even then I'm not sure if that's far enough right for the average democrat.
Commies and fascists are the same thing because they do the violence. The reasons they do the violence is not relevant.
I, a good democrat, don't do the violence. Those bodies that keep piling up in other (dirty, evil) countries during Democrat run governments are coincidental. All the funding I give to police departments totally aren't related to the police blasting people in the streets daily. I know this because my ideology is totally not conservative.
I really want to know what you said before the communist told you that you deserved the wall
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
If you mean the Democrats (which you must to say ""viable"") you are too lost in the sauce.
"Come on guys, we should back the Strassers. They aren't perfect but come on!"
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren't even center leaning.
You can't even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.
I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.
That's not fair to Estonians. This can only come from the mind of a Burgerländer.
idk I saw some pretty awful posts from the Estonian admin of lemm.ee
This comment is giving me so much whiplash.
I was sure it was gonna be ironic when they started comparing anarchists to fascists, but fun fact: no, they actually mean it. Anarchists are fascists, everyone. You've heard it here first!
I swear, if there's something liberals hate more than what's on their right, it's what's on their left.
Vibes based politics is endemic among liberals. We try to help them but it's mostly futile.
What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There's a viable left leaning political party in the US? What is it?
He live in a world where CPUSA has massive political influence
The US has two right wing parties. Never mind nationally, I've had Democrat electeds oversee cops "sweeping" encampments just as brutally as any Republican would, what exactly is supposed to be the harm getting reduced here?
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Sorry which party is this? Dems are not even a remotely left-leaning party. Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.
This is also like a children's picture book-level of understanding of fascism. As if the Dems' policy of 4 more years of the status quo could prevent fascism at all. That has literally never worked as a way to combat fascism.
Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.
And then used his platform and office to force the rail companies to address their concerns. You fucks are so dishonest
A bad deal that didn't get close to meeting the unions demands is not "addressing their concerns"
No he fuckin did not, the rank and file wanted 14 days, the rank and file pushed for a strike, which union leadership did not want, the rank and file did not vote to sabotage their striking rights, Biden and the Capitalists wanted 0 days and no strike, the Squad "wanted" 7 days and were willing to sacrifice the right to strike despite knowing perfectly well the 7 days bill would die in the Senate
4 days is an insulting crumb to incentivize workers from not engaging in unauthorized slowdown measures, sick and tired of you Blue MAGA slugs
What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Left leaning? According to who or what? If you said socially progressive there might be a point here, but the democratic party is no where near left wing. And the social progressiveness only serves to take advantage of those being oppressed in order to win votes. It's hollow, and when people start losing rights (like women and abortion) the Democrats will make 500 excuses about why they can't do anything, instead of actually doing something. The democratic party serves as a ratchet to kill and absorb left wing movements and keep the acceptable discourse within the sphere of economic liberalism.
I'm begging Americans to read literally anything about their political system from a non American, non Eurocentrist perspective. Begging. I'll start by linking some here.
The specific combination of factors in the historical formation of U.S. society—dominant “biblical” religious ideology and absence of a workers’ party—has resulted in government by a de facto single party, the party of capital. The two segments that make up this single party share the same fundamental liberalism. Both focus their attention solely on the minority who “participate” in the truncated and powerless democratic life on offer. Each has its supporters in the middle classes, since the working classes seldom vote, and has adapted its language to them. Each encapsulates a conglomerate of segmentary capitalist interests (the “lobbies”) and supporters from various “communities.”
American democracy is today the advanced model of what I call “low-intensity democracy.” It operates on the basis of a complete separation between the management of political life, grounded on the practice of electoral democracy, and the management of economic life, governed by the laws of capital accumulation. Moreover, this separation is not questioned in any substantial way, but is, rather, part of what is called the general consensus. Yet that separation eliminates all the creative potential found in political democracy. It emasculates the representative institutions (parliaments and others), which are made powerless in the face of the “market” whose dictates must be accepted. Marx thought that the construction of a “pure” capitalism in the United States, without any pre-capitalist antecedent, was an advantage for the socialist struggle. I think, on the contrary, that the devastating effects of this “pure” capitalism are the most serious obstacles imaginable.
TIL you have to endorse letting the Ukrainians fall to fascist imperialism to be on the left
You're working from a number of false premises - Like the people in the DPR and LPR don't want to be part of Ukraine, because the Galacian fascists who control the government in Kiev won't stop trying to kill them. What about the self-determination of people not to be slaughtered by Banderite fascist death squads? What about the self-determinations of Crimeans to finally break with Ukraine after trying for thirty years? Ahh, you will say, but those elections weren't real, so I can say that no one in any of those regions actually wants to be free of the violence directed at them by hte Rada.
ANd I could go on and on and on but you know what the truth is and you know I'm a lying tankie and blah blah blah we've all done this dance before.
You tell these commies bro, our hero Zeleksny has already sworn to led the white race to victory
TIL you have to endorse letting the Ukrainians ethically cleanse the Donbass and Crimea to be on the left
you say that like the average ukrainian has any say in what their government does.
"the Ukrainians" are not a monolith. You may be aware that a civil war raged for 8 years before Russia invaded?
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
we have one of those? what's the name of the party?
If the democrats truly are the only viable "left" option then the only reasonable course of action would be to burn the whole state apparatus down and start anew.
You won't advocate for that of course because the fact is you don't really care about things being better, you care about pretending to be on the moral high-ground, so vague platitudes about things getting better in the abstract you get from democrats is just enough for you, because you probably endure no economic hardship and politics is just an extension of sports to you.
Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians? I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats. Nor do I see anarchists kneecapping the Democrats. Anarchists don't want a state, though many do vote for the moderate right-wing (not "left leaning") Democrats simply because they think it's the right thing to do.
Your sweeping generalizations and attempts to paint all of us with the same brush betray your own lack of knowledge, but don't worry, I'm sure the planet will last long enough for the Democrats' slow incremental change, and I'm sure my family in border camps are very thankful to be in liberal concentration camps.
Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians?
I think you're giving too much credit to "authoritarianism" as a political dimension beyond those weird conservatives who want ersatz father figure heads of state
Apologizing after saying something stupid is a level of grace we rarely see from the smugtrust
Any objective measure of politics puts them on the right wing. Your only measure is relative. Because you have no ideology whatsoever you have no underpinning with which to judge a political party.
The point isn't somehow that Conservatives are left wing, but that Democrats aren't "reformers" either! Most of what they do is "rehabilitate" and I don't mean that with respect to the criminal code.
Democrats are right wing because they uphold capitalism and advance imperialism. Conservatives aren't reformers, but neither are Democrats, "sorry."
I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats.
Nah I believe it a lot of Anarchists are fighty and wouldn't be nearly as indulgent with this absurdity as we are.
they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Are you talking about the party that doubled Trump's deportation numbers, expanded oil drilling and fracking and striped the rail unions of their right to strike? I know you're not talking about THAT party, you think we've all been at brunch and hadn't been paying attention like you jackasses?
I've gotten death threats from both of them.
are these "death threats" in the room with us right now?
What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
Mutual Aid: A Theory of Evolution is available on Gutenberg. Go learn something.
In order to counter the Trump bot accusations going on this thread:
The Trump appointed Supreme Justices are conservative stooges that are clearly just trying to ram through as much conservative stuff into the justice system as they can. The cagey abortion rights the US enjoyed (though sometimes not in practicality) were abolished, which is bad. There were in fact a lot of posts about this on hexbear at the time it was happening. You can now search this if you so desire.
Trump escalated sanctions against Cuba. This comes up from time to time, but he's obviously not in a position to directly affect this at this precise moment, though the cudgel of "swing state" Florida Cubans is used to avoid any de-escalation.
Trump-supporting state legislatures are escalating attacks against trans people, both as a practical threat (bigots can attack trans people under the assumption that their state's law enforcement won't do anything about it) and as a legal escalation to remove any federal protections for trans people. This is also bad. Trump is also partly running on this. This comes up frequently on hexbear.
Trump didn't succeed in the wall (which itself has had varied response amongst his supporters), but he did increase funding for ICE, expanded detention camps etc. This comes up when it's in the news, but Trump specific policies don't tend to be news regarding this right now for some reason.
Trump's tax cuts for certain sectors and the ultra-wealthy. idk why you'd think hexbear would support this?
and so on
I'm not sure why I'm doing this. I'm not sure why people are surprised that a news aggregation and commentary site tends to talk about things that are currently happening as opposed to things that happened three years ago.
Yeah, it's so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.
Anarchy and Communism are not the fucking same, what a removed meme
Lmao that hat reminded me of this (short) video:
Edit: Piped doesn't seem to be working? Maybe an issue with Shorts. https://youtu.be/qowJStEn534
https://piped.video/watch?v=qowJStEn534
Also check out his other shorts, he never misses, legitimately great content.
Ayyy Krolden! Long time no see, I remember you from the beforetimes! Hope you've been doing well!
i dont, im so fucking tired of it already and it isnt even a US election year
edit: wow what a surprise, out of my inbox, the only two msgs with people bitching at me are the replies in an inherently inflammatory political post. in response to a fairly innocuous comment too! this kind of bullshit is bad for the brain
politics doesn't just manifest when the white suburbs have to play democracy in their plutocratic country once every 4 years
oh okay so the increased bickering and disinformation must be my imagination then cool thanks for your input and signal that you really do care about the world more than me, you are just a better leftist
have you noticed how posting in a political meme comment section affects your snottiness though? so are you just snotty all the time or only in political meme sections or what?
I think the level of passion people feel about this is roughly equivalent to the level of gaslighting they've experienced by people who can't fathom people to their left that they consider inferior not falling in line with their privileged positions
Pro-Soviet (no longer exist) ≠ pro modern Russia
Against continued war in Ukraine ≠ pro Russia
Libs will never forgive the Soviets for saving eastern Europe from fascism lol
Take a deep breath. As someone who's been in your shoes, this may not click right away.
Every single thing you've ever heard, learned, watched, or read about another country that was ever an enemy of the united states has been some version of an exaggeration or a lie. You live in the most intense propaganda machine that has ever been created. You live in the most intense surveillance state that's ever been created. You live in the biggest, richest empire that has ever been created.
- What made the USSR brutal?
- What made the USSR authoritarian?
- Are you willing to apply the same standards to all countries?
The Soviet Empire directly occupied every constituent "Republic" as colonies, as well as occupied the Warsaw Pact countries as satellite vassals, and used military force to put down any rebellion from their puppet nations in the Warpac. They denied the people any say in government, subverted unions into agents of the state instead of advocates for the workers, and systematically crushed any domestic political dissent using secret police.
As to whether I'm okay with consistently applying that? Sure. The last time the US fought a military conflict in order to annex a nation into empire was 1902. The Soviets did it consistently throughout their empire's existence.
Much of what you're claiming is undermined by the fact that the vast majority of Soviet people voted to keep the USSR. How could that have happened if people had no say in the government, and if the SSRs were just colonies? It's also undermined by facts like the early USSR letting some former Russian vassals become independent (e.g., Finland), successive Soviet constitutions granting more and more power to SSRs and national groups, and the steady rise in living conditions under the USSR/the sharp decline in living conditions after its dissolution.
And if you're serious about applying those same standards to every country, you'd see the U.S. as one of the most evil countries in the world. Our treatment of black Americans and American Indians was literally a model for the Nazis, and eclipses the scale and severity of even the most fevered anti-communist propaganda. We've fought wars of aggression all over the Global South. We've strangled popular anti-colonial movements in their crib and kept them down by backing murderous dictators. We illegally monitor as much of our citizens' communications as possible, have extrajudicially assassinated opposition leaders, have attempted to blackmail opposition leaders into killing themselves, violently repress even peaceful left-wing protests (while providing police escorts for Klan rallies and Proud Boys), hell, the Chicago PD was running a black site torture operation.
But I'm guessing you don't take that part seriously, otherwise you'd have questioned whether such an evil country -- that's militantly opposed every communist movement since before the USSR even existed -- is a reliable source on the shortcomings of communist states.
secret police.
This is what you call "intelligence agencies in a country I dislike"
cointelpro, mkultra, etc. etc.
The Soviet Empire
gotta say I know this comes from brainworms but without context the name sounds cool
never want to use it cause its dumb but still
You do know that's worse, right?
Holy shit EPIC le reference, i tip my fedora to you kind sir
It is?
Remind me during the cold war, which countries were on the side of pro independence anti colonial movements in Africa, and which countries were pro colonisation and pro apartheid? I'll think you'll find that more often than not, the USSR was on the side of anti colonial independence movements, and that the US and Western Europe were on the side of the pro colonial forces.
Even if the USSR only supported anti colonial movements out of pure self interest and cynicism, it's a hell of a lot better than supporting colonialism and neocolonialism like the USA and Western Europe did back then during the cold war.
Westerners have never forgiven the soviet union for saving them from fascism.
Which is why they all voted to stay in the moment they got the right to vote on it. Right?
You say that like three random politicians from belarus, ukraine, and russia didn't just sign a paper one day and declared the ussr gone
or that 76% of the citizens voted to preserve the Soviet Union
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.
Biden doubled Trump's deportation numbers and gave record breaking funding to corrupt police departments all over the country, also striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven't managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s
Yeah keep telling me about the "bad guys"
https://mronline.org/2022/01/21/the-700000-club/
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/20/biden-haiti-deportations-texas-del-rio/
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-09-17/biden-administration-appeals-judge-order-to-stop-expelling-migrants-under-public-health-law
So easy to find these sources, but as you can see below me, libs don't know how to read basic statistics
Biden doubled Trump’s deportation numbers
2021 was the lowest deportation year on record (owing to COVID). 2022 was the second lowest deportation year in modern record.
Biden moved to prioritize ICE focusing on criminal immigrants, and the Texas Republicans blocked that behavior in the courts, a block that only failed in June of 2023 when SCOTUS gave the only reasonable result (a phrase I can't say very often anymore).
So 2 years of record low deportations and 1 year of his hands tied in the courts (of which I can't find numbers anyway). How exactly is he "doubling" Trump's deportation numbers?
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses. But you're making some factually incorrect statements and it can't be more clear than the deportation numbers. And more refs.
https://www.axios.com/2022/03/11/ice-arrest-deportation-number-biden-immigration
https://www.cato.org/blog/biden-administration-has-reduced-deportations-more-trump-administration-not-much-0 (I love the "not by much" when they show a graph depicting an 80% drop! I love propaganda mags)
Try again, you’re simply counting arrests and deportations, I'm talking about Title 42 which was also Trump's primary deportation method
“Given the grave harm that the Title 42 policy inflicts on desperate, asylum-seeking families, and the public health community’s view that the policy is not necessary, we would have hoped the administration would simply accept the ruling, especially given its repeated claim that it wants to distance itself from the Trump administration’s asylum practices,” said Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s immigrant rights project.
Customs and Border Protection said 25% of the 209,000 people it encountered in August had been stopped at least once over the previous year, compared with 14% in earlier years.
Hmmm funny how numbers change when you account for all avenues of abuse
What you MIGHT have misunderstood is that the number of border crossings have gone up dramatically under Biden, likely because he's against the draconian and horrific policies of his predecessor. More border crossings than ever. Fewer deportations than ever. Whatever your opinion is of that, your claim was wrong.
Nope incorrect
During his four-year term, Trump used Title 42 to remove 500,000 asylum seekers. In under a year, Biden has deported almost 700,000 migrants.
That was a year and half ago, and before the Biden admin intensified the deportations of Haitians especially
the weekend show U.S. Border Patrol agents on horseback violently grabbing Haitian migrants attempting to join the Del Rio encampment. This, the Biden administration claims, is in the name of safety: The mass deportations have been authorized under the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Title 42, which enables expedited deportations in the name of public health during the Covid-19 pandemic. Under Trump, nearly half a million people were removed under the law; the Biden administration has already used it to deport nearly 700,000.
Its use against migrants at the southern border sends a clear and vile message as to whom the U.S. deems to be the public, deserving of health and safety. Under Title 42 — in the name of safety, that is — those being rounded up and flown to Haiti were given no option to apply for asylum or temporary protection status.
It is worth emphasizing, too, that the majority of deportees have not lived in Haiti for many years, having left to find work in South America after a catastrophic hurricane devastated their home country in 2010. Struggling to find enough work to survive in South America, thousands risked perilous journeys to the U.S. border, only to be summarily removed — to Haiti.
Next time before you put on the lib tinted glasses, don't just look for sources that only count ONE method of deportation and immigrant abuse, count them all, also you used Cato.org, straight up a right wing source lmao
And I'm pretty sure it would be turn into a shitfest if I tried to discuss the rest of the issues because I know you see them with Marx colored glasses.
Honestly this bit makes me extremally curious what your response to the other two issues are. Do you think they're both good things? I just want to know what I'm dealing with here.
He didn't even know about Title 42 and its use by the biden admin to deport twice as many people as Trump, I doubt he has informed opinions on police funding and strike breaking lmao
And this circlejerk is why I block hexbear on the apps I have that allow me to. There is no point in continuing conversation at this point. I'm less than human to you and yours.
???? You literally didn't know what Title 42 was, and you were spreading poorly researched misinformation about an important issue, also "less than human to you" ??? bro we're debating on an Internet forum chill out
I'm less than human to you and yours.
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Dude, you're commenting on a thread about the liberal tendency to write off communist human beings as literal robots, the irony of you being so bad at taking corrections that you immediately jumping weepily onto the cross and play the victim just to avoid having to type out "damn, I didnt know that" is powerful and embarassing.
Dude, I was commenting on specific fabrications someone was spreading, and out came all the responders to tell me how ignorant I am because I disagree with them. I'm not a liberal who writes off communists. Neither "a liberal" nor "write off communist".
Do you believe it is possible for a person to be a communist and also spread something that is not 100% honest truth? Do you all take the Three Oaths?
Sorry, but no. Nice comic, if only it were accurate. You drew yourself with a chad face, so I lose.
Look, nothing personal, but you can still treat someone like shit just because other people treat you like shit.
what, when did we imply or say you're subhuman
if you didn't read the evidence, you're going to get called out for it, simple as
No, I assure you incredible confidence in your own unfounded beliefs and complete ignorance of the depths of your ignorance is extremely human, as is retreating in to cliches and retrenching when you're confronted with evidence that contradicts your ideological beliefs.
Buddy you were proven wrong on various points and now you're pissing and shidding your pants saying we don't treat you as human?
Not sure why I'm stupid enough to reply.
WRT police, the budgeting is not unprecedented. I, too, support defunding police, but as far as all the metrics I've seen, nothing about Biden's budget effect on police funding is out of the ordinary.
WRT the Union stuff, it's complicated. He used a law meant to protect the country for the way it was indended, and empowered 8 of 12 unions to sign a deal they agreed to. There has never been any evidence of overt or covert threat of actually arresting members of the other 4 unions if they did strike. You might disagree with that, but it was a bold faced lie to say he "(sic) striped one of the largest unions in the country of its right to strike, something Republicans haven’t managed to do since the Traffic Controller firings in the 80s"
You get to decide whether someone on your side lying is better or worse than someone who is merely far-left non-communist calling bullshit what it is. There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it's lying.
There is exactly one way to guarantee never having my vote, and it's lying.
Do you...do you actually think we intend to vote communism in?
They still don't know how communists gain control after all these years
Then why all the lies and standing by them?
But no. I've been reminded hundreds of times that you intend to bring communism by putting guns to the heads of the majority of your fellow proles like myself who don't want what you do. I know I'm going up against the wall, along with over 90% of my country, if you ever win.
But that's why I know you won't win. You can't execute 400M people, and you can't turn their hearts by threatening to.
If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no "other" to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.
The right loves anti-electoralism on the left, it means that they have less of a fight from the left.
Can you imagine how bad things would be if people didn't vote if they felt like they were picking between the lesser of 2 evils?
This nation would look a whole hell of a lot like modern Florida with it's politics because Republicans in general turn out way more often than anyone else to vote.
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Then why have things been getting so much worse over the past 50 years even with plenty of blue boys and gals getting put in office?
What about the good that has happened?
Do you think gay marriage would have been protected?
Access to birth control secured?
Anti-sodomy laws getting struck down?
The Affordable Care Act passing?
Disability rights?
Do you think any of those things would have happened if Republicans been able to seize power and hold it unopposed over the last 50 years? No. None of those things would have happened. Those things happened because people further left than them got elected, the lesser of 2 evils won some elections.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of better.
disability rights were fought for by disabled people, not fucking democrats. Gay people rioted to get their rights.
and do you actually think contraceptives are secured?
It would have been on a state-by-state basis, which is what we're coming dangerously close to anyway.
We don't go around campaigning specifically to discourage people from voting. Our project is to get people to see beyond the seesaw spectacle.
When someone offers you two poor options, the right thing to do is to create a better option, even if you take the less bad option in the short run. Voting a Democrat into office and then congratulating ourselves on doing it is how progress slips and how we lose sight of what's needed.
Gay marriage isn't protected. Scotus can shoot it down on a whim
Lol Biden lost Roe
Court decision
Sucks
What rights? SSI tops out at 700$ a month, I can never have more than 2k in assets, and if I get married I lose it all. Just happened to a friend of mine, they're going to have to annul their marriage so they don't starve to death. "disability rights".
The crux of the issue is, where you see a democracy that is keeping fascism at bay, we see through the illusion of choice that keeps allowing the slow steady march towards fascism.
It's a ratchet. Gop moves everything rightward (including the Dems) and the Dems refuse to push left in the name of "bipartisanship". Then conditions get worse (because the policy is further right than before), Dems eventually lose because they allow gridlock and the ratchet suddenly frees up and cranks to the right again.
And how much worse would it be right now if Dems never won elections due to people saying "this dem isn't far enough left therefore I won't vote"?
How far right would things have flown?
Voting for the lesser of 2 evils reduces harm now. And when the lesser of 2 evils isn't pushed that things are allowed to shift further to shit.
Let me be more blunt. We do not live in a democracy. Voting is fundamentallly unable to change that.
idk man there's a literal genocide going on right now I think we're past the point of quibbling over minor differences in the deree of evil.
Study: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens:
From the abstract:
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
further down:
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
What is it, like, 70% of Americans want single payer healthcare?
No the right actually hates that. Democrats have been shrieking at us to vote for years even though the entire left in the US is a tiny fraction of the registered electorate. But the right wing won't stop screaming at us about it.
And the right is currently openly talking about raising the voting age because younger people tend to vote more progressive.
Sure sounds like voting works and has republicans scared.
If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
i accidentally deleted my comment ahhhhhhhhh sorry for double ping
I swear to god the next time tells me that BS I am going to shit myself, vomit, and cry.
There is a literal anti-Trans genocide in the US. That's "The good" you're defending.
Democrats are right wingers. And they're worlds away from anything I'd call "good"
I append it because I like the guy
