https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/25/netflix-liu-cixin-adaptation-uighur-comments-the-three-body-problem

this is definitely the most important thing happening.

    • emizeko [they/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      to them muslims are good if they bomb official US enemies and bad if they do literally anything else

          • volkvulture [none/use name]
            1·
            4 years ago

            wait, did requiring engravings of knives purchased in these areas start before or after the fundamentalist sectarianism?

            Hui Muslims also do not completely escape this terrifying inculcation. Which isn't to say it's some inherent feature of Islam, obviously not if these groups have co-existed for so long, but we can't ignore the extent to which a recent narrative of "cultural genocide" gets slathered on these stories.

            Hui Muslims are socio-linguistically & historically of Chinese descent. And they are also known to have Salafist & extreme sectarian groups moving in and out of these areas in Xinjiang. Hui muslims have been implicated in Heroin rings & moving those drugs to those Uyghur areas.

            To what extent is Daesh and its outgrowths an encouragement for these groups elsewhere & why was the reporter A. Vltchek found dead under suspicious circumstances in Turkey?

            Is this global nexus of oil money & militant funding & state surveillance not just a way to encircle China from Central Asia?

              • volkvulture [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                education & economic development are not law enforcement issues in the same way as the United States' War on Drugs & racist for-profit prison industry.

                you can parse the lasting social benefits & fundamental uplifting aim of one over the other, i am sure of this.

                and you're right from one perspective about Turkey, I think, but this topic just gets more interesting & complex the less we accept the "china bad" line.

                https://www.sbs.com.au/news/china-releases-video-of-uighur-musician-disputing-reported-death

                the way news & sensationalism & outright lies blend so perfectly into jingoism can't be ignored. none of us are immune to propaganda, but I think we can comb through most of these claims about PRC and find very little real or irrefutable evidence.

                  • volkvulture [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    Wait, what's the solution outside of economically investing in these areas and attempting to bring these far-flung & socially disparate groups into the fold of larger PRC mainstream cultural norms?

                    I think you discount the extent to which these insurgencies have their origins in Western & Saudi-influenced meddling

    • Yun [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Yeah he definitely could have worded it better. That being said, it seems to me the author's point wasn't to label all Uyghurs being detained as terrorists but to point out that Xinjiang actually did have a serious terrorism problem. The "hacking away at bodies at train stations" references events that have actually happened: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xinjiang-blast-idUSBREA3T0HX20140430

        • blobjim [he/him]
          4·
          4 years ago

          How is that Islamophobic? He didn't even say "Muslim" or "Islam". And there have literally been terrorist attacks in China carried out by the separatist groups including ones with knives. That's what people don't get. This isn't America's War on Terror, where there was no actual threat in the United States and which the US didn't solve at all in the Middle East. There is actual domestic terrorism in China. This would be more akin to white supremacist attacks in the US and realizing that they are carried out by a certain group of disaffected people, and providing that demographic job opportunities.

          • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
            5·
            4 years ago

            omg some uyghurs are using knives? well that certainly justifies mass violence against an ethnic and religious minority.

            (also, smiling at the though of McNamara explaining to American dissenters that Americans were bringing "domestic job opportunities" to the North Vietnamese )

            • blobjim [he/him]
              2·
              4 years ago

              China is not committing "mass violence against an ethnic and religions minority". You're just regurgitating propaganda from blatantly dubious sources now.

              • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
                4·
                4 years ago

                ah yes, the violence is only limited to "separatist groups" who have it coming.

                imperialism with a chinese face.

                • ARVSPEX [none/use name]
                  2·
                  4 years ago

                  Again, what 'violence'?

                  Imperialism

                  When you definitively know what words mean.

                  • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
                    4·
                    4 years ago

                    right imperialism and violence is what the west does, but when the "correct" chinese groups do it, it's proper assimilation or out of the movie "Hero" or something.

                    • ARVSPEX [none/use name]
                      1·
                      4 years ago

                      imperialism

                      You keep saying that word. Is that what kids are calling learning Mandarin these days?

                      assimilation

                      Funny that apparently just one out of the many Muslim minorities in the PRC is being subjected to this devious 'assimilation' process. Almost as if Islam is not the problem, but radical ideas are.

                      out of the movie “Hero” or something

                      Arguing through films? I knew you were a lib.

                • blobjim [he/him]
                  1·
                  4 years ago

                  The people who have to go to the vocational schools are people who participated in separatist activities, up to and including actual terrorism. Western media has created a lie (like they often do) that every Uighur in Xinjiang is now in a concentration camp (lol). Completely baseless and incomprehensible.

                    • blobjim [he/him]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      It is really on the media outlets to actually provide evidence for their claims, but I know what you're asking is to learn about the opposing left-wing view. I never have a good summary link on hand but I found this one: https://thecommunists.org/2019/12/31/news/blatant-hypocrisy-usa-lies-about-china-uighur-muslims/

                      Ultimately western propagandists can come up with new lies all the time that require reading to debunk, but you can usually tell how flimsy they are because they cite no real evidence other than western authorities, or rely on "research" from people like Adrian Zenz.

                        • ARVSPEX [none/use name]
                          4·
                          4 years ago

                          I love the fact you were so enthusiastically arguing about this without apparently knowing the first thing about it beyond sensationalist western headlines.

                          • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
                            3·
                            4 years ago

                            my guy, i'm "enthusiastically" arguing the simple point that the PRC should be held to the same standard as the west.

                            I'm getting cutting rebuttals in this thread: that islam is an existential threat (and thus the west and PRC are justified in their actions) (lol); that the PRC's invasive approach is paternal and for the Uighers' benefit -- to provide jobs (uh, an empty justification that could be leveraged by any "imperial power"); that Xianjing is properly within Chinese/PRC's hegemonic sphere (complete question-begging nonsense).

                            feel free to give me better facts, showing that the PRC's alleged cruelties are fabrications (blobjim endeavored to so, respectfully), but please spare me your unearned, patronizing comments and these sorts of ludicrous, cringe-inducing arguments.

                            • Yun [he/him]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              Not sure if you saw it already but I made a post in c/sino that you might be interested in: https://hexbear.net/post/33959

                              Of course this was just from a single school during a limited time tour but it reinforces the impression that I got from looking into this issue which is that the only part that I find concerning is that the criteria for selecting people to attend the camps seems rather arbitrary.

                              Also the World Bank, which had been funding some of these camps conducted their own investigation and released this statement about them saying they didn't find anything that substantiates the allegations: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china

            • ARVSPEX [none/use name]
              3·
              4 years ago

              mass violence against an ethnic and religious minority

              Where?

              Begone, lib.

                • volkvulture [none/use name]
                  2·
                  4 years ago

                  except Vietnam is not even close to US sphere of influence & Xinjiang is literally within PRC sovereign territory

                  PRC recognizes all of these groups with special designation. You can parrot jingoist disinformation about a situation you've no personal experience with, or you can admit & attend specifically to the terrible ways the West (North & South America especially) treat indigenous there. Canada & US have never given these groups outreach or uplift & leave them to flounder in marginal scrubland

                  Yet you appear to live in this fantasy where Islamic fundamentalism & zealotry are only conceivable threats to “Western society”…

                  You think PRC deserves terrorist attacks, & that the global war on terror & gitmo & extrajudicial rendition by America are in this other category.

                  • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
                    2·
                    4 years ago

                    if you want to link me better facts (against the western narrative/propaganda), feel free, but i'm absolutely not sympathetic to this argument.

                    Yet you appear to live in this fantasy where Islamic fundamentalism & zealotry are only conceivable threats to “Western society”…

                    You think PRC deserves terrorist attacks, & that the global war on terror & gitmo & extrajudicial rendition by America are in this other category.

                    in no way am i saying that, bud. clearly islamic fundamentalism is not a serious threat to the west, it's a sad pretext for western hegemony and incursion. the capitalist west shouldn't do it; nor should the PRC.

                    • volkvulture [none/use name]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1160094.shtml this is from last year & seems to indicate things are improving from the perspective of government openness & goodwill

                      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47191952 this is also from last year and maybe passes the sniff-test for you here for "East vs. West media bias" maybe not idgaf

                      https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/china-muslims-work-change-perceptions-after-knife-attacks this is VOA, so it's definitely tripe, but even it still was giving somewhat of an even-handed & in-depth perspective on the issues at play here in the Obama era

                      https://thediplomat.com/2014/10/chinese-salafism-and-the-saudi-connection/ this too gives nuance and offers wider connections to the general state of Islam globally. But it leaves out key connections between the "openness" reforms of Deng's era & how these have always led to potentially dangerous Western & even extreme theocratic influences into the country

                    • ARVSPEX [none/use name]
                      1·
                      4 years ago

                      Except Islamic Fundamentalism is very much a threat to the PRC because it stems from within its own borders—The slew of terrorist attacks carried out in the Xianjing region can attest to that. The two are not comparable.

                      • BETO_Institute [none/use name]
                        2·
                        4 years ago

                        uh, physical/territorial proximity is definitely not why there is an obvious salient comparison between the two.

                        when france annexes/colonially appropriates algeria, algerian separatists come from "within" france. we're right to support the algerians, and condemn the french. not sure why Uigher separatists shouldn't be afforded the same solidarity and consideration as we would have with the algerians .