i highly doubt that any aliens have visited here either, we're a single grain of sand in an unfathomably huge desert after all, and the reasons i have seen people state for why we would be a tourist trap for the ayylmaos tends to be based on a weird human-centric idea of being INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT for some reason, usually some weird mystical woo like orgone energy or some shit
Aliens is such a broad category. It ranges from believing that aliens are here all the time, kidnapping people and performing cattle mutilations to just thinking that Oumuamua may have been an alien probe because it was extrasolar and oblong as fuck. In the first case I would worry that you may be ignoring some real kidnappings and cattle mutilations that should probably be taken a bit more seriously, but in the second case, go nuts. I mean that extrasolar object truly was balls-to-the-wall oblong.
It's a very unusual shape for an extraterrestrial object to have. They tend towards the spherical, because of gravity. The more elongated something that "small" gets in space, the more likely it is to break apart under the gravitational forces of its own spin and nearby bodies. Oumuamua was remarkably oblong, but not impossibly so. Like a four-leaf clover that also exhibited some weird reflective qualities that could, but do not necessarily mean, that it was made out of metal. It was on the extreme end of the spectrum for both shape and reflectivity, but to bring myself back to earth a bit it wasn't actually impossible in either spectrum.
i highly doubt that any aliens have visited here either, we’re a single grain of sand in an unfathomably huge desert after all
This is science denial. Astronomical research points to the Earth being rather unique in the universe. If spare-faring aliens exist, Earth is in the 99.99999th percentile of places to observe. There are millions of "Earth-like" planets, but it is still an unfathomably small percentage of the universe.
UFOs are real. We either are fundamentally lack an understanding of what's happening on Earth & the atmosphere, or extra-terrestrial beings observe Earth. The former is very unlikely. There has been decades of failed research attempting to prove this thesis. The latter is an unknown probability.
it isn't "science denial", the universe is fucking huge. that we are an interesting place to visit is irrelevant if no one knows we exist in the first place
There are methods to determine where Earth-like planets exist. And if a civilization crashing towards extinction can pull that off, I presume a spare-faring species may do that better.
Given that every other explanation for UFOs falls flat, that presumption is more likely to be correct.
those methods depend on being able to observe the star that the planet is orbiting around, if they are too far away to even detect our sun (which is the vast majority of the universe), there is no way at all that they would know the earth exists, let alone all the things on it that they would like to study/poke/laugh at or whatever
Then the question becomes "what is the probability that space-faring life has detected the Sun, or has a method to predict the presence of a Sun-like star through more observable phenomenon?"
These are priors we have no way to prove. But we have been unable to produce any sort of explanation for the UFO phenomenon in 70 years.
If you deny the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, then you are extremely confident that we fundamentally do not understand what is happening on Earth and in our atmosphere. That's fine. I just find the discovery of Earth by extra-terrestrial life possible. And if it was discovered, it would be a high priority for observation.
I'd recommend reading UFOs and Government by Michael Swords for a comprehensive history of explaining the UFO phenomenon. It avoids the extra-terrestrial question, and focusing solely on failed attempts to explain the phenomenon.
i mean, i doubt it's aliens, but i'm not denying the possibility.
what always puts me off with ufo researchers is how much they tend to devolve into bad fanfiction, and occasionally weird white-supremacy shit. Like the classification of alien species stuff for example, with the "Tall Whites" and the "Majestic Twelve"
(Copied from a reply I made a long time ago)
Just statistically I believe it’s impossible life in the universe doesn’t exist. We already knew about the possibility of bacteria on mars and there’s like millions of other planets that could support life like earth. There must be life out there, no matter how simple, and that’s just evidenced by this Venus stuff. However it also seems unlikely that aliens have contacted us. Most habitable planets are way too far away to the point where it would take uncountable light years to get there and Light speed travel Is obviously impossible. Plus, the odds are most species aren’t in the stage of development to contact us. Humans have only existed for like 100k years and only had the potential to make contact with aliens for 100 years. Our civilization probably won’t last more than 10 thousand years. And if all the other planets have similar life cycles of billions of years the odds of aliens being as advanced or more than we are at this exact moment are literally minuscule in the grand scheme of things. That said I do think that bacteria certainly exists and I wouldn’t be surprised if simple life forms also exist on other planets.
Plus, the odds are most species aren’t in the stage of development to contact us.
The Big Bang happened ~14 billion years ago. The solar system & Earth formed ~4 billion years. There are millions of Sun-like systems that formed in the billions of years before Earth formed. There are regions of the universe have had life developing billions of years later than Earth. I don't understand this prior.
About half the stars in the universe are older than the Sun. We are not on the vanguard of species development.
If that’s the case though what are the odds of an alien species surviving this long and not somehow reaching us? Thinking about the Fermi paradox there’s a lot of reasons working against humanity. I am a firm believer in extraterrestrial life, for sure, as there’s even proof of bacteria on Venus now, but there’s so many odds stacked up against hyper intelligent aliens visiting us specifically and just abducting random farmers that it really has little basis in reality
I am a firm believer in the known and the scientifically proven. It just seems way more likely to me that specifically UFO sightings can be explained by low probability weather phenomena or the government doing something experimental, then covering it up. Just statistically, the odds of ball lightning sightings for example are tiny of course, but it’s infinitely higher than the odds of a planet within distance of earth being developed enough to support life, then that life being hyper intelligent, then that life choosing to travel to earth, and that life flying around in their spaceship in the right spot so it can be seen. I mean the earth is massive itself and 2/3rds are covered by water so why do most crazy sightings seem to happen in rural America? I mean, the size of the universe is incomprehensible as it is. Statistically all these things lining up are minuscule compared to the odds of a simple weather phenomenon or a mistake in sighting, like seeing the shadow of a barn owl as a gray alien or something.
It just seems way more likely to me that specifically UFO sightings can be explained by low probability weather phenomena or the government doing something experimental, then covering it up.
I'd recommend reading UFOs and Government by Michael Swords. There are UFO sightings that absolutely can not be explained away with "weather phenomena" or "experimental government projects."
I don't think you actually know anything about the documented history of UFO sightings. Is that correct?
but it’s infinitely higher than the odds of a planet within distance of earth being developed enough to support life
What do you mean by "within distance"? That phrase is carrying a lot of weight. It is guaranteed that life in parts of the universe started developing billions of years ahead of us. Given that, distances of thousands, maybe even millions of light years possible given our current understanding of physics (matter must move STL). But even then, there are FTL theories that have not been disproved. There are likely FTL theories yet to be theorized.
I mean the earth is massive itself and 2/3rds are covered by water so why do most crazy sightings seem to happen in rural America
They don't. Most sightings occur in aircrafts. Again, I do not think you know much about UFO sightings lol
Also, most people don't live on the ocean. It is unlikely people would look up from their ocean home and see a UFO, right?
i highly doubt that any aliens have visited here either, we're a single grain of sand in an unfathomably huge desert after all, and the reasons i have seen people state for why we would be a tourist trap for the ayylmaos tends to be based on a weird human-centric idea of being INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT for some reason, usually some weird mystical woo like orgone energy or some shit
Aliens is such a broad category. It ranges from believing that aliens are here all the time, kidnapping people and performing cattle mutilations to just thinking that Oumuamua may have been an alien probe because it was extrasolar and oblong as fuck. In the first case I would worry that you may be ignoring some real kidnappings and cattle mutilations that should probably be taken a bit more seriously, but in the second case, go nuts. I mean that extrasolar object truly was balls-to-the-wall oblong.
deleted by creator
Go nuts, those radiowaves were really anomalous!
deleted by creator
But, above all, shit's fucking OBLONG!
deleted by creator
It's a very unusual shape for an extraterrestrial object to have. They tend towards the spherical, because of gravity. The more elongated something that "small" gets in space, the more likely it is to break apart under the gravitational forces of its own spin and nearby bodies. Oumuamua was remarkably oblong, but not impossibly so. Like a four-leaf clover that also exhibited some weird reflective qualities that could, but do not necessarily mean, that it was made out of metal. It was on the extreme end of the spectrum for both shape and reflectivity, but to bring myself back to earth a bit it wasn't actually impossible in either spectrum.
deleted by creator
This is science denial. Astronomical research points to the Earth being rather unique in the universe. If spare-faring aliens exist, Earth is in the 99.99999th percentile of places to observe. There are millions of "Earth-like" planets, but it is still an unfathomably small percentage of the universe.
UFOs are real. We either are fundamentally lack an understanding of what's happening on Earth & the atmosphere, or extra-terrestrial beings observe Earth. The former is very unlikely. There has been decades of failed research attempting to prove this thesis. The latter is an unknown probability.
it isn't "science denial", the universe is fucking huge. that we are an interesting place to visit is irrelevant if no one knows we exist in the first place
There are methods to determine where Earth-like planets exist. And if a civilization crashing towards extinction can pull that off, I presume a spare-faring species may do that better.
Given that every other explanation for UFOs falls flat, that presumption is more likely to be correct.
those methods depend on being able to observe the star that the planet is orbiting around, if they are too far away to even detect our sun (which is the vast majority of the universe), there is no way at all that they would know the earth exists, let alone all the things on it that they would like to study/poke/laugh at or whatever
Then the question becomes "what is the probability that space-faring life has detected the Sun, or has a method to predict the presence of a Sun-like star through more observable phenomenon?"
These are priors we have no way to prove. But we have been unable to produce any sort of explanation for the UFO phenomenon in 70 years.
If you deny the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, then you are extremely confident that we fundamentally do not understand what is happening on Earth and in our atmosphere. That's fine. I just find the discovery of Earth by extra-terrestrial life possible. And if it was discovered, it would be a high priority for observation.
I'd recommend reading UFOs and Government by Michael Swords for a comprehensive history of explaining the UFO phenomenon. It avoids the extra-terrestrial question, and focusing solely on failed attempts to explain the phenomenon.
i don't
I meant to say "if you deny the possibility of extra-terrestrial life discovering Earth."
i mean, i doubt it's aliens, but i'm not denying the possibility.
what always puts me off with ufo researchers is how much they tend to devolve into bad fanfiction, and occasionally weird white-supremacy shit. Like the classification of alien species stuff for example, with the "Tall Whites" and the "Majestic Twelve"
Yeah, esotericists love Ufology. That hits the same as "the Nazis were socialist" to me.
(Copied from a reply I made a long time ago) Just statistically I believe it’s impossible life in the universe doesn’t exist. We already knew about the possibility of bacteria on mars and there’s like millions of other planets that could support life like earth. There must be life out there, no matter how simple, and that’s just evidenced by this Venus stuff. However it also seems unlikely that aliens have contacted us. Most habitable planets are way too far away to the point where it would take uncountable light years to get there and Light speed travel Is obviously impossible. Plus, the odds are most species aren’t in the stage of development to contact us. Humans have only existed for like 100k years and only had the potential to make contact with aliens for 100 years. Our civilization probably won’t last more than 10 thousand years. And if all the other planets have similar life cycles of billions of years the odds of aliens being as advanced or more than we are at this exact moment are literally minuscule in the grand scheme of things. That said I do think that bacteria certainly exists and I wouldn’t be surprised if simple life forms also exist on other planets.
The Big Bang happened ~14 billion years ago. The solar system & Earth formed ~4 billion years. There are millions of Sun-like systems that formed in the billions of years before Earth formed. There are regions of the universe have had life developing billions of years later than Earth. I don't understand this prior.
About half the stars in the universe are older than the Sun. We are not on the vanguard of species development.
If that’s the case though what are the odds of an alien species surviving this long and not somehow reaching us? Thinking about the Fermi paradox there’s a lot of reasons working against humanity. I am a firm believer in extraterrestrial life, for sure, as there’s even proof of bacteria on Venus now, but there’s so many odds stacked up against hyper intelligent aliens visiting us specifically and just abducting random farmers that it really has little basis in reality
That is where the proven reality of the UFO phenomenon comes into play.
That is infantilizing the history of the UFO phenomenon. Personal accounts of abduction are not used as evidence.
I am a firm believer in the known and the scientifically proven. It just seems way more likely to me that specifically UFO sightings can be explained by low probability weather phenomena or the government doing something experimental, then covering it up. Just statistically, the odds of ball lightning sightings for example are tiny of course, but it’s infinitely higher than the odds of a planet within distance of earth being developed enough to support life, then that life being hyper intelligent, then that life choosing to travel to earth, and that life flying around in their spaceship in the right spot so it can be seen. I mean the earth is massive itself and 2/3rds are covered by water so why do most crazy sightings seem to happen in rural America? I mean, the size of the universe is incomprehensible as it is. Statistically all these things lining up are minuscule compared to the odds of a simple weather phenomenon or a mistake in sighting, like seeing the shadow of a barn owl as a gray alien or something.
I'd recommend reading UFOs and Government by Michael Swords. There are UFO sightings that absolutely can not be explained away with "weather phenomena" or "experimental government projects."
I don't think you actually know anything about the documented history of UFO sightings. Is that correct?
What do you mean by "within distance"? That phrase is carrying a lot of weight. It is guaranteed that life in parts of the universe started developing billions of years ahead of us. Given that, distances of thousands, maybe even millions of light years possible given our current understanding of physics (matter must move STL). But even then, there are FTL theories that have not been disproved. There are likely FTL theories yet to be theorized.
They don't. Most sightings occur in aircrafts. Again, I do not think you know much about UFO sightings lol
Also, most people don't live on the ocean. It is unlikely people would look up from their ocean home and see a UFO, right?