This man has never read Marx. This are the same second-hand shit takes all libertarians got about Marx.
Marx constantly cites “Capitalist” economists in his writing. He also cites Government Reports when he talks about stolen wages, punishment of laborers, child labor, etc., not “museum shit.”
Also the Labor Theory of Value isn't even something Marx came up with! It was an existing idea at the time- acting like the LTV is Marx's sole insight is absurd
Even if you discard the LTV (and a lot of modern Marxists do), the idea of extracted surplus value still survives. Your boss pays you less than what your boss gets from your work - or else they wouldn't have hired you in the first place. It doesn't matter where the value comes from, the workers don't get paid more than what they contribute - at least on average. (Unless you have a bullshit job or your company is a fraudulent scheme.)
Yeah. The way I like to think of it is that the boss is an unnecessary part of the process, so it is fundamentally in the collective self interest of the workers to remove the boss from the process.
Eh, the way that I think of it iis that management is essential. Resource management is as important as the resources themselves, it's the capital class siphoning this value that's to blame, not your typical management.
@NotARobot probably meant boss as in owner rather than mere manager. Strategy and tactics are still needed to direct production, the difference would be in who benefits from the control of production.
That would be too easy and to rough a sketch.
While many early and pre marxist socialists were not antipathic to utopian ideas not all of them were utopists or idealists. Even the utopists though were parts of the relations of their times.
This man has never read Marx. This are the same second-hand shit takes all libertarians got about Marx.
Marx constantly cites “Capitalist” economists in his writing. He also cites Government Reports when he talks about stolen wages, punishment of laborers, child labor, etc., not “museum shit.”
Also the Labor Theory of Value isn't even something Marx came up with! It was an existing idea at the time- acting like the LTV is Marx's sole insight is absurd
Even if you discard the LTV (and a lot of modern Marxists do), the idea of extracted surplus value still survives. Your boss pays you less than what your boss gets from your work - or else they wouldn't have hired you in the first place. It doesn't matter where the value comes from, the workers don't get paid more than what they contribute - at least on average. (Unless you have a bullshit job or your company is a fraudulent scheme.)
Yeah. The way I like to think of it is that the boss is an unnecessary part of the process, so it is fundamentally in the collective self interest of the workers to remove the boss from the process.
Eh, the way that I think of it iis that management is essential. Resource management is as important as the resources themselves, it's the capital class siphoning this value that's to blame, not your typical management.
@NotARobot probably meant boss as in owner rather than mere manager. Strategy and tactics are still needed to direct production, the difference would be in who benefits from the control of production.
deleted by creator
Besides he and Engels toured around workshops. Also there was a huge tradition of pre socialist experience going on before Marx.
Yep, those were Utopianists who were no better than these fucking libs we have today. Scientific Socialism gang whats up
That would be too easy and to rough a sketch. While many early and pre marxist socialists were not antipathic to utopian ideas not all of them were utopists or idealists. Even the utopists though were parts of the relations of their times.