Let's set aside the popular argument that Israel has our complete and utter support and is actually doing what we want it to--**I accept that this is the most reasonable and likely explanation, but I want to ask about other possibilities. **
Does Israel have doomsday bombs planted all over the world or something? Because seeing US Officials saying "we hate that they're doing this, we've asked them not to, but there's nothing we can do" is so obviously inadequate and non-real, that you can really only assume that they either a.) wholly support all of the actions and are in fact directing them or b.) they know that apocalypse looms if they don't appease, like hostages. Basically US officials look like servants to Israel, with the speed and totality to which they supply aid and grant cover for what are obviously "beyond the pale" actions by our client state.
Again, I suppose option a. is the most likely. But I can't quite square their willingness to accept so much utter humiliation in order to see their "secret" desires met--they're pushing a misguided and likely to fail NeoCon foreign policy wet dream, and those same wild neocons would be constitutionally unable to accept public performances of weakness--the entire ideology is about performative strength.
I suppose option c. is that they know the world is fucked, billions are gonna perish one way or another in the next couple decades, and so why not funnel huge profits to defense contractors while they can so they can feather their bunkers properly.
I Don't know, there's just such a great deal of hyper-reality going around, I can't properly analyze anything easily anymore. Anyone even mildly paying attention can see that you could easily put Israel in line by pausing or significantly limiting arms and aid money--they cannot bomb anything if they don't have bombs, and aside from spyware and doing sloppy Nazi impressions in media, that appears to be all they're very good at, at this point.
I know US Officials don't care about dead Muslims or brown people, especially so if they're on the other side of the world, but they do care about humiliation. All of those stupid elites do, it's practically all they care about, since they already have virtually unlimited money and power as a class--we're constantly hearing how they hate that people don't like them, or think they're weird. They do stupid non-rational shit all the time to combat this. They want their cake and they want to eat it too.
Where does absolute support for Israel end, policy wise for the US. Is there really no red line?
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Israel does what America wants it to do
Taking the blame away from America by saying that “maybe there are doomsday devices planted all over the world” is both nonsensical and disgusting
The blame lies on America just as much as it does on Israel and any Palestinian will tell you that
Tbf I don’t think OP is actually suggesting there are doomsday devices, that’s just an extreme example to make the point of “Why does it often look like Israel is the one in control here?”
yes, that's correct. I don't mean to suggest there are actually pocket nukes in sweetgreens, and good US politicians are just "trying to save the world". I'm just trying to understand how they can allow Israel to humiliate them so much. I buy it that they might be willing to just take the PR L and look like dipshits in order to deflect the blame for the nastier stuff to the client state, but the uniformity and lockstepness of it, plus the very real loss of face it represents seems to run counter to what I understand to be typical neocon tendencies.
look, if you read my post, you'd note that I accept this position in my first paragraph. And I'm not interested in taking blame off of America--I'm just curious about an aspect of the behavior that never quite makes full sense to me. Regardless, I note that you're a staunch support of option a.
I’m Palestinian and I’m from the West Bank
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My younger brother downloaded sparking zero today ,I hope our computer is fast enough to run it
We love triple posting from mountain cell service don’t we folks
There are multiple levels to US support for Israel which can give the appearance of Israel “pulling the strings” when in reality it is a beneficial arrangement that is propped up by the US regime.
From a geopolitical standpoint, Israel is an essential component to the US unipolar order. Israel’s six-day war victory was a huge boon to the US, allowing the US to vicariously dominate western asia while it was overextended in Vietnam. This turned the tide against a socialist-oriented pan-arab movement. Israel saw a jr partnership to the US as a beneficial long-term arrangement, but for many years played both sides of the cold war up to that point. Israel’s importance to the US became dire after the Iranian revolution, which between the Shah’s Iran and Israel had encircled western asia more or less by US proxies. All of this control is essential for the US petro-dollar system, the system that forces the world to trade in dollar and therefore allows the US to essentially print a near-infinite amount of its fiat money without much concern for the integrity of its currency.
On the other hand, the US political system is a bourgeois republic that uses political elites, beholden to factions of the capitalist class and their monetary support, in order to legitimate its power. So each politician appears to be working under this or that party/principle/idea, but in reality it is a system that leverages individual (politicians) interest in order to align with ruling-class interests. The reason AIPAC and the Israel lobby appears to control politicians is because they have been given loopholes and exception to the point where it has been a defacto unspoken rule to support israel. the power AIPAC has over politicians is a representation of the power of the ruling class with its full weight behind this particular policy. Just like the interests of banking/finance or the MIC are unassailable to a large degree, they just call those things “bipartisan”.
Guess what I am saying is that despite whatever things they say in order to make whatever it is palatable, the US fully supports whatever the fuck Israel is doing. There is no secret or magic device making politicians bend to their will
yeah I think I follow. So basically Israel is just viewed as such a crucial and intrinsic part of US strategy/power projection/dominance in ME, that it's simply not even thinkable to conceive for most of the system to be in conflict with it, even when it continues to veer into deeper and deeper levels of genocide and impunity. And perhaps the bureaucratic and temporal nature of administrations and US officials (moving in and out of office, new staffs, etc) allows for the humiliation to be less damaging than it would to a more directly strongman/authoritarian system, like say Putin and Russian Federation?
So I'm a dumb engineering guy who has a tentative grasp on geopolitics and Israel at best but, There was a magazine cover I saw a while back that showed a bunch of dominoes with the flags of Various countries with Israel at the forefront. The headline and the cover were pretty blanat in saying: If Israel falls the rest of the west will fall from the domino effect.
That imagery is obviously hyperbolic but I think to a larger extent than we sometimes appreciate; a lot of very powerful people genuinely believe that. I think they view Israel as being basically a requirement for any future with western hegemony, and since a world without that hegemony is completely untenable to them we're basically all in on the project now. Either the dream of greater Israel happens or we have to start managing and facing the decline.
I think the actual necessity of Israel for the US's interests is very overstated, but, as you say:
a lot of very powerful people genuinely believe that
And furthermore - everybody knows they believe that. If Israel falls, the US failed to achieve one of its top foreign policy goals. Places kept in line with soft power and CIA coups are going to see the US fail to hold the place kept in line with billions of dollars of weapons and the US's full diplomatic support, and think the empire is crumbling and they can break free.
And I think that any competent foreign policy ghouls, if the US still employs any, will know this too, and be forced to side with Israel.
Let's set aside the popular argument that Israel has our complete and utter support and is actually doing what we want it to
While I mostly believe this, I have one piece of evidence to add to the contrary: We know what it looks like when a country is doing war and ethnic cleansing because the US wants them to, and that example is Ukraine. So why is it that Zelensky is clearly a puppet of the US being dragged around as they please, whereas with Netanyahu it seems like he’s the one in charge, manipulating the US to his will?
I’m not sure what this is supposed to imply. This would mean Ukraine has more leverage. So if Israel doesn’t have oil or gas in addition to everything else, why does it seem like they control the US and not the other way around? They should be in a weaker position than Ukraine.
Sorry, should have elaborated. Why bomb the piss out of Ukraine for their natural resources when the US/NATO can strongarm them into making someone else do it? Fighting to the last Ukrainian so that Exxon, BP, et. al. can swoop in and keep the pipelines running, all for the low, low cost of a few bits of mothballed US military hardware*. Ukraine is not only a pawn in this context (in the broader geopolitical rivalry with the Russian Federation and its sphere of influence), but also a fertile ground for even more capitalist plunder than what they've already experienced since the dissolution of the USSR.
*And countless Ukrainian lives, but NATO doesn't give a shit about them
Israel exists solely to destabilize the middle east and act as a big stick in the event that anyone starts straying from the petrodollar.
It is a bit of a puzzle for me. It's very easy when talking about this stuff to veer into far right "Jews control the world" type nonsense so I tend to avoid it. Jewish people do punch far above their weight in this country for wealth & education metrics. I never really met any Jewish people in my early life until getting past undergrad and now I work with quite a few in both the academic & industrial sides of my field. So Jewish people do have cultural, political, and institutional heft and many of them strongly support israel. That counts for something in this country, even if it isn't so easily identifiable as a material condition. However, I don't think this heft would be so effective at mustering support for israel's colonial ambitions if it didn't also align with the wants of the military-industrial complex. I guess my thesis ultimately comes down to a sort of "I'll watch the skies" dynamic where liberal institutions are neutered of their power to stop the state from fully going in on what the MIC wants.
For alot of older Jewish Americans seeing the rise of Israel was very inspring and subsequently Israel has been seen through rose colored glasses by these people. My grandfather was 23 when the Nakba happened, but to him Israels founding was a miracle. To him it made Jews look strong, whereas the holocaust was the epitome of weakness.
He is 98 now and the concept of Israel being built on genocide will never resonate with him. The idea that Israel deserves to fail, that it is illegitimate, is incomprehensible. It has bad leadership, but the Palestinians have even worse leadership. Thats the real problem.
The good news is that none of his grandchildren will ever view Israel the way he does. I don't see strength in Israeli Jews. I reject the zionist notion that genocidal Jews are strong and Jews under a genocide were weak and pathetic. Its all bullshit.
To him it made Jews look strong, whereas the holocaust was the epitome of weakness.
Where did that type of thinking come from? Why would anyone look at the victims of genocide as weak? Does he also view Armenians and African Americans as weak?
Also thank you for the insight. I always had a hunch that the reason why older (non israeli) Jews make excuses for the terror of israel was due to the Holocaust and not so much anti-arab hate. Although the latter is baked in atp, I'm sure.
the US support to Israel always felt to me like how State contracts private firms for project:
1- You give an contract with an x amount of cash
2- The cash flow into each nods from the state to the firm.
3-every people at each hubs get a cut of the cash as it flows.
4-Repeat.
I think the greater conspiracy of some people on the right has always felt like a cope to the most evil scheme of all: this whole support is just bureaucrats funneling cash to other bureaucrats in the cash funneling cycle and millions of people have to die for it. Make the cycle untenable and the support would stop
Are there Israeli Doomsday Devices planted under DC Sweetgreen franchises?
I mean, the proof is in the pudding. All they have to do, is eat it...
Shout-out to sweetgreen, best DC fast food place since five guys
I just assume at least 60% of American politicians are being blackmailed by Mossad. Half of them are pedophiles anyway, so it's probably not that hard to get dirt on them, especially with Epstein types working at the highest levels.
