no I will not explain this one
how about we post it in !food@hexbear.net since it's a problem for everyone
they explictly state the point of the post is to "trigger vegans" to because they're on a "high horse". nothing constructive will come from it, though fwiw most folks can see through it
shut up and eat some lentils and beans
South Indian food is pretty vegan already and is excellent
As if vegans are the only ones who consume resources from the global south. No omnivore has ever eaten coconut, palm, or soy products.
Literally breathing in the imperial core is an exploitation of the global south
most people that live in the imperial core also eat locally farmed food. vegans usually have to use substitutes and sometimes those substitutes rely on food grown in the global south bc it tastes better or some shit
What proof do you have that most people eat food grown locally? Unless you eat a diet deliberately designed to take advantage of local food sources (which most people don't, most people just buy what they can afford) you almost certainly eat food grown by exploited labour in other parts of the world. On top of that if you live in the imperial core and your food is grown locally it is grown on stolen land and probably grown in an unsustainable and ecologically destructive way.
the us is 50% farmland. this gallup poll https://news.gallup.com/poll/240515/americans-try-eat-locally-grown-foods.aspx says that most Americans eat foods grown locally. most of the shit they eat comes from farms not that far from where they live
On top of that if you live in the imperial core and your food is grown locally it is grown on stolen land and probably grown in an unsustainable and ecologically destructive way.
you're not wrong...?
Account made three months ago, three posts
Pull the hook out of the roof of your mouth
lmao out of all the shit the global north extracts and exploits from the global south you went with vegans - holy shit post hog or gtfo
Interesting, I'm sure this will struggle session quickly. I think veganism combined with utilizing local veg & fruit farms that farm sustainably / utilize permaculture / follow regional native agricultural practices is the best way but I also utilize alot of the replacements which exploit as you stated.
With that being said there is a role for animals in sustainable agriculture so idk, I feel like the best way to fix this is pursue veganism while enabling the communities in the global south to organize in a way that they can exert power to reduce the exploitation.
Any struggle around this is going to boil down to "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" imo
Right, I was a dumb lib with that take the first time we did this months ago now I feel we should be able to have a more nuanced discussion regarding the intersection of food exploitation in the global south and the good that veganism provides.
i mean eating anything in the global north is gonna depend on the global south to some extent, and specifically explotation of land and labor in it, but meat absolutely requires more of both to produce
so if you want this to be nerd shit read this instead
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dependency_theory
I mean there's not a lot of nuance to be had about it. Plant based options require less land and resources, and a lot of plants are simply grown as animal feed. Like you can't get mad at vegans over their consumption of soy, as meat eaters outpace them on soy consumption, albeit indirectly, and then have all the added baggage of you know, eating meat. So plants > meat, end of discussion, etc
As far as the global south in this equation, the answer (and only answer) to these discussions is "abolish capitalism". We want to end the exploitation of these people and their resources? Abolish capitalism. Want to address how shitty crop rotations are and how more diverse fields should be planted? Can't happen until you abolish capitalism. Want to encourage local staple foods, and make sure every farm is producing what local communities need to sustain themselves? Good luck doing that without abolishing capitalism.
So really if we talk about it the takeways will be that you should pursue the most ethical habits you can for now, try to avoid meat if possible, try to grow your own shit if possible, eat local stuff if possible, and that we'll all have to wait for massive systems to be overthrown for meaningful change. Until then, there's not a lot we can individually do and any discussion about it online won't bring about material change
yes and in an ideal society everyone should be vegan. it would be hypocritical for me to be all smug about this whole I type out this comment on a $1000 device with minerals mined also by the global south.
but a lot of vegans do have a high horse to stand up on (you can see this in the thread rn) and don't like to experience any cognitive dissonance that their lifestyle is a western luxury so I thought it would be funny to trigger that
but a lot of vegans do have a high horse to stand up on (you can see this in the thread rn) and don’t like to experience any cognitive dissonance that their lifestyle is a western luxury so I thought it would be funny to trigger that
you deny the existence of animal rights activists and vegans all over the world. people don't conform to your stereotypes about who gets to be vegan and who not. post hog.
as if India hasn't had a tradition of this stretching back tens of centuries - queen_antifa's take is so fucking patronizing.
answer me this: with the current state of the world that we live in right now, is it fesable for literally every single person on Earth to go vegan right now?
You explicitly want to "trigger" vegans and do not want to engage in actual debate or conversation. POST HOG CHUD.
Please point these pro-imperialism vegans out to me because I don't notice any in this thread
Thanks, I'm going to keep killing animals until I find the holy grail of ethical consumption under capitalism
And the global south’s land. Soybeans grown for wealthy countries are often more profitable than local staple crops. Not to mention that growing the same crop year after year depleted nutrients in the soil, so replenishing it artificially is necessary even if the locals somehow manage to get the land back.
70% by weight is livestock feed because the beans are difficult for humans to digest. The oil is extracted for the soy products that humans consume.
I’m not arguing in favor of livestock farming in general. The issue with growing soy is that imperialism incentivizes irresponsible use of the land and exploitation of the people and resources of the global south. Soy farming could be done far more responsibly without capitalism.
mperialism incentivizes irresponsible use of the land
excuse me youre denying the southern bourgouise agency here youre doing a western chauvinism
What would be done with the beans if they weren’t used for livestock feed? They’re being grown anyway because of the oil so there wouldn’t be much of an impact on how much is grown
Yes it would. The 70% figure is by weight. The beans are grown for the oil and the beans themselves are fed to livestock.
Yeah the issue I’m concerned with is exploitation of the global south. The food is grown for exports and the farms are owned by people who don’t care about the local population. It’s certainly possible to use crop rotation of lentils, soy, etc to keep the soil fertile. Veganism isn’t the problem, imperialism is. I think reducing dependence on animal products is a goal that should be pursued. I’m just worried about how it will be done by capitalists
Do you have a source on this? I'm skeptical, because everything I've read on the subject has pointed to there being a lot of reasons for soy's ascendance (nitrogen-enriching soil, good protein/fat for livestock, the versatile oil you mentioned). I haven't seen it explained as "it's for the oil, animal feed is incidental byproduct." In fact, when I read about future projections of soy's growth, this growth is almost always tied to its role as a good feed for livestock. Example:
"The importance of soy on the global market is not likely to decrease anytime soon. With growing demand for meat around the world in places such as China, the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) predicts that soy production will continue to increase dramatically, from around 276 million metric tons in 2013 to 390 million metric tons by 2050. Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, or Argentina may be likely to fill that demand."
This comes from the most recent article of this sort I've come across:
https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/soybeans
Not saying that's like the gospel truth, but since I've never really seen your particular take I'm curious where it's coming from.
https://foodsource.org.uk/building-blocks/soy-food-feed-and-land-use-change There are some whole-bean products made for humans, but those are grown from specific cultivars that are made to look and taste good to humans. Most soy is not from those cultivars.
Let he who is without soy cast the first boy.
"Few of us are aware of how much soy we eat - because we tend to consume it indirectly. We may not eat large quantities of soy directly, but the animals we eat, or from which we consume eggs or milk, do. In fact, almost 80% of the world’s soybean crop is fed to livestock, especially for beef, chicken, egg and dairy production (milk, cheeses, butter, yogurt, etc). Soy oil is used for cooking and can also be found in margarine, chocolate, ice cream or baked goods, as well as in cosmetics or soaps. Soy production has more than doubled over the last two decades."
https://wwf.panda.org/our_work/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy/#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20almost%2080%25%20of,butter%2C%20yogurt%2C%20etc).&text=Soy%20production%20has%20more%20than%20doubled%20over%20the%20last%20two%20decades.,-But%20the%20rising
