Ruled by evil space wizard satan, on the DARK side, nazi uniforms.
Idk Lucas was kind of subtlethe bad guys in star wars were designed to be as obviously bad as possible. like if ur a kid u go "omg... those the bad guys...." like as soon as u see them. did they try to make them sympathetic in the future movies or r these guys just rly weird fascists
Some Original Trilogy fans likes the Empire, probably some weird fascistic fantasy.
Prequel fans are supposed to like the Republican/Clone Army, because the plottwist is that they are actually evil in the end and the war was meaningless.
Considering they are heavily based on the USAmerican empire, it is a good example of how yankees see morality based mostly on ethnicity and accent
What were the benefits? And no EU bullshit. It's gotta be shown in the films or one of those stupid tv shows. It seems like, by comparing the prequels to the ot, that before the empire shit was generally nicer. Anakin's slave dwelling was nicer than Luke's shitty moisture farm with an open pit as part of the design
Yeah the empire is pretty consistently depicted as inept, corrupt, not much in the way of delivering material benefits for the people of the galaxy. There are no “trains running on time” in the original trilogy, shows, or even most of the EU.
I really don't get how Palpatine's power grab even worked, the last coup de Gras, the lead up made sense. He kept ma ufacruring crises to gain power. But once he declares empire all of those perceived crises are on the verge on being solved. How did that last longer than a month of so? He needed a longer term post clone war fake crisis to keep this charade going long enough to consolidate power. The fact there was a senate up until a new hope proves he really didn't have the necessary ducks in a row to go full mask off evil realistically. Clone war is won, the jedi are dead and that's when you seize full control? It worked cause movie but it's clearly wither too early or too late to pull that card. George Lucas has never had to be a deceitful little shrew while keeping up appearances long term for sure. Every job I've had had been Operation Quiet Mutiny. I can be as dishonest as I want to anyone in a position of power over me and I'll pretend to be the most friendly and easy going guy ever as a means to an end. The position I'm in by default is I scratch your back, you stab mine. Being great at flattery and bullshit helps me even the odds.
The senate definitely seemed to act as a release valve, keeping up the pretense of a democratic republic; probably some sort of “well if we can just get enough senators, we can override the emperor” liberalism. Axing the senate without the institutional gravitas left Palpatine with lashing out with the military as the only option, and it clearly wasn’t enough.
I can buy that. I'm spoiled on ds9 and b5 and when space politics comes up in any Sci fi and isn't handled as deeply, it always feels to me like, why bring it in if it's gonna be half assed? When it was empire bad rebel good that was enough for the scope of the story. I'm sure someone will tell.me to watch the crsppy clone ears show, I've tried. It sucks. Cause it gets into it more, but that doesn't make the movies not fail. I shouldn't have to watch something made after the movies that retroactively try to make sense of it. It's a dumb universe for the most part. I like love the first movie, like empire and adore Andor. Jedi is a fun movie. The prequels are eternally fascinating. Aside from that my interest in stsr wars is anthropological
Just from the movies, I'd assume it was mostly just "business continues as usual" except with a centralized federal military. The Republic didn't seem to even be a state so much as an extremely weak federation with no coordination and no central powers, so a power bloc that had the actual material capacity to wield power and which had the tacit support of most of the component states wouldn't really face much in the way of real resistance. Like I don't even get the impression that it really disrupted the ruling class much at all, it just made it a bit more human-centric bit by bit and gradually escalated the suppression of non-humans and dissidents.
I kind of assume the Empire's long term base of support mostly came from human revanchism and supremacism along with the usual sorts of benefits compradors get for collaborating, and there'd probably be some planets or at least regions on some planets that get to be imperial cores and benefit from wealth extraction from all the subjugated planets, but with the series being written by libs it's not like they really do material analysis or think about things beyond just vibes like "the Empire is powerful because narratively that makes it an interesting and threatening antagonist and they're bad because they're the bad guys and scowl with their frowny faces and are mean and stuff." George Lucas was a bit better about that but despite having a clearer vision of what was going on and why he still leaned heavily on vibes to convey it and when he tried to make it more explicit and show the political side of it he didn't do a very good job and he got panned for it.
Just from the movies, I'd assume it was mostly just "business continues as usual" except with a centralized federal military.
There is a wealthy Coruscant elite in a Mandalorien episode who jokes at a gala he barely noticed the change from Republic to Empire to New Republic.
I said no book bs. Did human supremacy come up in a TV show didn't watch?
It's in the movies, if not directly addressed. The imperial command structure is exclusively human, as are their footsoldiers, and in A New Hope Luke sees joining onto this as a more desirable career path than anything to do with non-human cartels or businesses. It also seems like at least some of its foundational support comes from humans that had directly been oppressed or threatened by non-human institutions, between Naboo and its invasion by a non-human federation being a rallying point for Palpatine's bloc and Anakin having literally been enslaved in a society that seemed to put humans on the bottom.
Like this is clearly part of the worldbuilding, especially given that per Lucas the Empire is a mashup of America and Nazi Germany with the human dominance angle being a clear analogue to the white supremacism of its inspirations, it just doesn't do a good job of addressing or articulating it.
The implication is there I guess. If it's that crucial and these are kid's movies then they should have made an actual point of it. Cause also what even is a human in the star wars galaxy? And wasn't the senate mostly weird aliens? It seems humans were the vast minority in that organization and territory. They needed bug men to build their robots and long neck freaks who live in apple stores on a rainy planet to clone the clones. I'll allow some eu bs here, but like...why was Palpatine racist? Just.csuse he's evil? Darth Maul was an alien, if he had killed both the jedi in phantom menace and became the Darth Vader, what was his an there? I for sure have seen it by implication and get the symbolism, but it raises more questions than it answers. Star wars is stupid as hell
Star wars is stupid as hell
It really is. Lucas had a few good points, and maybe some writers have done something interesting with the setting, but it's ultimately just vibes based slop and even Lucas didn't do a very good job of articulating his points.
I think the most impressive thing about the franchise is that a janky sci-fantasy samurai cowboy movie about Space-WWII-Vietnam-War-mashup in space managed to mainstream and legitimize sci-fi as a genre.
The Clone Wars TV show kinda gestures at it vaguely sometimes, but it's all background stuff that the child audience probably won't pick up on.
Like, there's a recurring bit of Palpatine consolidating senatorial power out of alien hands and into human ones as part of laying the groundwork for his rise. For example, all the heads of the banking clan are set up and Rush Clovis is appointed to lead them.
Or, like, how Gungans are treated in the senate, (they don't have a representative and the (Palpatine organised) senate celebrations of Naboo history all revolve around the human invasion of the planet and how cool they think the settler colonists were).
I think Tarkin rants about human supremacy in one of his republic is too weak speeches during the Citadel arc.
Ah, but it's human inept corruptness and, i assume some humans benefited enough, that luke was ready to join
Luke is in a position where either he gets into the imperial academy or he gets stuck as a farmer. Only option really, and like any fascist state the military is the only gainful employment option.
one would think having hive of scum and villainy nearby piloting ships might offer alternative route. It's not only gainful option, it's the only legal/low risk one
the average star wars fan goes ''Dude, my favorite part of Andor was when the stormtroopers started blasting during the riot!!!'' completely unprompted and for any and all excuse.
they just REALLY, really want you to know that they find the bad guys cool at all times and that also, they're really bummed out that the yuuzhan-vong got cut along with the rest of the EU, but anyways, did you see how badly The Acolyte flopped? go wokes go broke! right????
If I go to school and major in sociology, it'd either be that or geography. I think I'd write my thesis on star wars fans. They are really something else. I don't like em, but they're interesting to observe
I don't like em, but they're interesting to observe
That sentiment can carry you quite a ways when it comes to studying folks
Studying folks is a hobby of mine. People are neat and I have a hard time relating to most of em so it's easy to stay objective.
I find human psychology and sociology very interesting as well! And yes I liked playing with dolls as a child and creating an imaginary and immersive world for them.
People are amazing. One time just sitting around drinking in a park we noticed a guy who went from a construction site nearby to Domimoes. Came of out with an xl peperoni. Folded it and ate the whole thing in like 3 seconds like a pelican, pulled out a crack pipe, loaded a rock and smoked it, chugged a tallboy and lit a smoke. Threw up a pizza and went back to work. He was working on one of the many shitty condos going in to ensure affordable housing will never be possible. There is a book of poetry in that alone. I'll sit in the woods for like six days so that I can watch animals be normal around me. I love just like, siting around and making keen observations.
“Ackyually the heckin’ wholesome empire and the sith brought peace to the galaxy!”
So….peace is a lie? Can’t they just admit that they only support the sith just because they have cooler aesthetics?
As do I, in hindsight I should have written “just because they think the sith aesthetic is cool?”
Something of which is important because fascists use aesthetics as propaganda too. That “badass bad guy” aesthetic even makes real humans more charitable to fictional villains. Despite having the same ideology as the Sith, if you play RuneScape you’ll find out that Bandos is one of the least popular factions because very few people want to be associated with ugly, smelly goblins (doesn’t help they’re usually pushovers in combat.)
That “badass bad guy” aesthetic even makes real humans more charitable to fictional villains.
This is why fictional fascists should be portrayed as just as gross and pathetic as real fascists are.
If I could have a gold standard for leftists portraying CHUDs: it would be the elf from elf comic. Red hair, wears green, famous for her massive superiority complex because of her race….literally just Vivian James but with an unsympathetic portrayal if the work is supposed to be light-hearted (huge shoutout to Jojo rabbit, should be a required film for lefties).
As for more serious works, I’m torn between demonstrating fascists and the evil they do, but the hero gets revenge on them in the most satisfying ways possible like Hayley does to Jeff (a misogynistic predator) in Hard Candy, or just portraying them as little more than punk teenagers trying to act big and tough, nothing compared to any real threat the heroes have to deal with.
67% of responses fall into the New Republic's position.
George Lucas said the empire was based on US and the Rebels were based on the Vietcong. Cope more.
Folks its a brand new year, let's start day one with a roasting session.
I'll give folks maybe like until like 8 pm EST to get their dunks in before we throw this nerd down the death star reactor shaft.Edit: dang the slop must be too old and stale for the piggies to come in and feast.
Right? I wonder which one of those options ol' Lukey George meant the Empire to represent.
I mean I've never read a book, but I'm pretty sure they were based on [the bad countries].
