- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/2089998
Archived version: https://archive.ph/X5D30
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230830081318/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66654134
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About damned time. I was checking the LGBT travel advisories a few months ago, and was surprised that the US was green. Absolutely no way should anyone be travelling to Florida.
There's a state-by-state map updated last in June here: https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/june-anti-trans-legislative-risk
Look at that light blue for my state! It's not the best but I'm still so proud of our progress. Can't wait for it to be the darker blue.
The world should put up hazard warnings for anything having to go into the US
I believe the Bahamas had a travel advisory because of police brutality towards black people in the US.
This is an official government warning confirmed by the Deputy Prime Minister. From the source:
Asked why the guidance had been updated, Canadian Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland told reporters in Atlantic Canada that the government employed experts "to look carefully around the world and to monitor whether there are particular dangers to particular groups of Canadians".
She declined to comment when asked whether there had been discussions with the US government before making the change.
Honestly, including people is why i prefer just saying queer over using acronyms. It's completely open-ended, it doesn't create a hierachy based on who gets named first and who ends up with one of the slots behind the LGBT that may or may not be included by a given speaker, it's easy to use, it doesn't shoehorn people into rigid categories and makes it easy to fit in for people who are questioning or have complex identities - and it pisses off the exact type of bourgousified, reactionary, assimilationist, racist, mysogynist, transphobic, biphobic cis gays that the farthead you're replying to refers to when they bring up how supposedly "gay people shit talk" all of this.
same tbh, plus i find i trip over acronyms a lot and it gives Certain Assholes the feeling that they can use that as a vector for attack ("it's so complicated even they can't keep track!" etc)
supposedly "gay people shit talk" all of this.
worth mentioning scumfuck up there only added that bit after getting criticized for their bigotry. homophobes are all magically harvey milk's favorite nephew the instant someone calls them out.
worth mentioning scumfuck up there only added that bit after getting criticized for their bigotry. homophobes are all magically harvey milk's favorite nephew the instant someone calls them out.
Yeah that's common, i see that a lot both online and irl and they always mean somebody like that one gay dude in their QAnon chat group who dates muslim men exclusively while also wanting to genocide them.
That said, i don't mind when ohter people go with the acronyms, and it often tells you a lot about the background of the person using it. Like, i see that it starts with 2S, i immediately know they're Canadian because that's the only place in the world doing that. Or when somebody still says GLBT like they did before AIDS, i know i'm reading a post from a cis gay boomer. And when i see something including LGBTT, i know they're a transmedicalist and possibly from Southwest Germany and think you're not valid if you don't get bottom surgery.
Are the two Ts for counting "transsexual" and transgender as different things that are both included?
disagree, queer is not all encompassing. if you dont identify as queer but you still want to identify with the community the acronym is still the best descriptor. as for the order, i do support updating it by putting trans first and pushing bisexuals down the list in favor of pansexuals.
pushing bisexuals down the list in favor of pansexuals.
Bad take, considering bi erasure exists.
im not trying to do a bi erasure, bi people are valid. im just saying as someone who was bi sexual who later became pan sexual after learning about the term i just think changing some of the letters around would be good ways to raise awareness about different genders and sexualities in the acronym. so many people know what lgbt is but they dont really know the plus part. the first four are really important to the broader conception of gender and sexual identity as a whole. look if we can change the flag i dont think the acronym is sacrosanct either, i do however think we need an acronym.
i think lesbian, gay, and bisexual should be lower on the acronym. i think trans people should be first since they are receiving most of the targeting and attacks out of any group in the community right now, i think pansexuals, asexuals, and nonbinaries could really benefit from a representation bump. TPAN, rolls off the tongue. we can keep lgbt too. nobody got rid of the pride flag after the progress flag. both can exist at the same time. i just think its a representation issue.
queer is not all encompassing
It's literally a catchall term for anybody who's not het, cis, allo or endo.
pushing bisexuals down the list in favor of pansexuals
As a bisexual trans woman exclusively dating t4t, let's NOT start the "bi is actually transphobic, you should call yourself pan" nonsense debate. It always leads to awful bad faith discussions, pushes bi erasure and completely ignores any and all actually transphobic dating behavior, of which there is plenty, none of which is connected to calling yourself bisexual.
I don't follow - my understanding of the term is that it encompasses everyone who fits under the umbrella. if you're not under the umbrella, the acronym isn't going to fit either, no? can you give me an example of who you mean?
I've seen/heard of people specifically disavowing the term "queer" for their personal identity, but only a couple times and I, like others here, much prefer "queer" as a catchall term for brevity in all cases where there isn't someone objecting to it being applied to them.
yeah, I'd be curious to learn why. like I'm all for a different umbrella term but it's hard to pick one without understanding the complaint.
yep totally fair. I mostly interact with younger trans people - a lot of the boomers are just straight up dead here because of how the government handled AIDS. so there isn't the same kind of memory. like 40 is unfortunately the oldest I've met. it's rage inducing to think about - I transitioned with literally zero wise elders around to provide guidance.
I get that for older gay people in English-speaking countries and i appreciate that you shared this. My perspective on this is rather different, as i'm from Germany and completely out-of-date English slurs are obviously not something people here normally have a personal trauma from. On this side of the North Sea, the people who take objection to the term queer are mainly assimilationists who don't want to be lumped in with anybody who is too flamboyant, loud and gender-nonconforming for their straight friends and business partners, or they're outright terfs who love to make up stuff about how lesbianism is erased by the queer agenda (ofc most of the time these aren't even lesbians, and if you see them at a counterprotest to a Dyke* March, odds are they are paid to be there by one of the European fronts for the Heritage Foundation). So i'm not used to needing to pay attention to who i piss off with the term, because my experience is that it reliably pisses off people i want to piss off.
Likewise, i'm feeling kinda icky because my previous opinion towards the term kind of brushed over the trauma queer elders had to endure. Because it originally wasn't the international term it is now, it was something that gay people abroad probably knew about, but definitely not something your average bigot in a rural central-European village yelled at you when he thought your pants where too fancy to make him feel secure in his fragile masculinity. So i was under the impression that people still alive today just had no direct, hurtful experience with it like with other slurs.
assimilationists
I'm sure you'll find them in the anglosphere too. I've seen a few threads of twitter. Possibly just Germans though, since they tend to have good English.
Not even only boomer gays, I'm in my mid 20s and I don't identify with the term. If someone were to call me that I'd get flashbacks lol
It is more of a generational divide, you're right about that. I'm definitely an outlier in terms of people my age.
You know why the L in LGBT goes first, right? For me that's very important and I'll never change that.
Its a sociological descriptor not a personal one. You can be queer and not identify as queer, and you can identify as queer and not be queer.
Edit: Random fucking morons attacking me and calling me a bigot, you are truly a bunch of imbecile.
(sic)
LMAOOO now go make your Hexbear cyberbullying callout post on Estonian potato forums
oh no I posted bigotry and now they're calling me out for bigotry - I'm the real victim here.
"The minorities are bullying me! Help, help, I'm being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in their mockery!"
my totally real gay friends think you're silly, that's why you have to police your activism to appeal to me.
Fuck off.
you are quoting something I did not say, you too, can fuck right off to an eye exam.
You never heard of paraphrasing?
Illiterate and bigoted, name a more iconic duo.
We know how to read between the lines, you're not subtle dickhead
"My name is @Echo71Niner@lemm.ee and rainbows make me cry! Waaah waaaah"
BREAKING: China's new Bureau of Gender has announced 121,890 new genders. Furthermore, the PM announced yesterday "Every Christian church in Shanghai will be replaced by a gay club."
There are four letters in the headline of this article. Is that too many for you?
I wonder how many fucking numbers and letters they will keep adding over the fucking years.
Numbers and letters over the years:
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself"
Galations 5:14
"Be genial, sweet and kind towards your companions."
Mino-ī-Kherad, II.7
“For my people are foolish; they know me not; they are stupid children; they have no understanding. They are ‘wise’—in doing evil! But how to do good they know not.”
Jeremiah 4:22
You named yourself after a washer as best I could tell, not quite sure what point you're trying to make. Are you also gonna bump your name out a bit to get with the times or are you gonna grow old and mad with the years?
I love the LGBTQ+ acronym because it pisses off assholes
We've doubled the quota now to increase productivity, 2 letters per complaint now
When speaking I always try and say LGBT+, the "+" being everyone else. Or just queer, which is a decent cover-all on it's own. The ever longer acronyms get in the way of the point.
think we need to solve this with some regex. Do they accept wild card * ?
For early adopters, the term "Two Spirit" was a deliberate act to differentiate and distance themselves from non-Native gays and lesbians
Differentiating yourselves from an already marginalized group? That's a bold move Cotton...
Cishets try to understand queer identities and queer solidarity challenge, difficulty: impossible
Just physically say abiogenesis out loud and hear how ridiculous that sounds.
Amerika is at the point where people in California get shot for flying a rainbow flag.
No it's really not.
Recommend doing a bit of real traveling. As far as things go on a global scale a lot more FUD comes out of the US because it is an absolute media machine and everyone has their eyes glued on it at all times. As far as real world acceptance of LGBT it doesn't get much better anywhere globally than California. In my experience other than perhaps, some select parts of Western Europe, the comfort level for LGBT travelers is much higher in the US than most places. There are cesspools like Florida that stand out, but this travel warning is largely propaganda.
I've been harassed and attacked in one of the safest cities for queer people in the US - it's only safe anywhere in the country if you're white. so no, this isn't true.
No it's really not.
It was a pointed example, since it happened like a week ago:
https://apnews.com/article/pride-flag-store-shooting-california-b2bd4f89e992356f35d2101cdf665acb
I didn't make the initial comment and also you are just sniveling at this point
As far as real world acceptance of LGBT it doesn't get much better anywhere globally than California.
Have you heard of Cuba?
Yes, I've heard it's lovely but probably have to go through Florida to visit.
The amazingly free and open USA makes it difficult for American citizens to visit Cuba, which treats gay and trans people better than any state in the USA.
How do they make it difficult? I know several people that have visited and had no issues to complain of. I was half joking about the Florida thing, just going through the airport there probably wouldn't be as bad as walking the streets.
“It’s Florida and Texas and red states that are the problem,” I tell myself as my entire country continues to collapse in a thousand different ways. “It’s Florida and Texas and red states. If we just had 60 Democrats in the senate and a more moderate SCOTUS (like in 2008), everything everywhere would be perfect! I mean, just look at all Obama managed to accomplish during that time! Endless drone strikes, corporate welfare, and a health care “plan” endorsed by the Heritage Foundation that made no difference to health insurance prices (which continued to rise as though nothing had happened) and left tens of millions of people uninsured or underinsured and which led to tens of thousands of deaths over the years due to lack of coverage—and that was before the pandemic even started! It’s not the system designed by genocidal slave owners that’s the problem, we just need to get rid of the corrupt elites and replace them with GOOD elites and everything will work itself out!”
unless one of the frothing right-wing psychos who's full up on nazi propaganda decides you're a groomer and hate crimes you, which can happen in any state in the u.s.
Or anywhere in the world. Rare events that get heavily reported in the US do not paint the overall picture of LGBT experience.
Why are you so adamant in downplaying the crimes of a nation that has passed almost 500 anti trans laws this year alone?
Because these are the games of politicians. Try being trans in rural China, India, pretty much anywhere in the African continent or anywhere in the middle east. Come visit and see if you'd like. I've been to these places and if you don't believe me look at other travel advisories. The risk to travelers is being blown out of proportion and just because the media is doing this it doesn't mean that educated individuals hanging out in Lemmy communities need to propogate this garbage. Do I want politicians to get their shit together? Yes! Do travelers need to eat up the media fear that pours out like a fire hose these days? No, it's rubbish.
I'm not saying that other parts of the world are all safe, i'm saying that it's entirely proportional to issue a travel warning for the US, and that you're deliberately downplaying the rise of institutional and societal transphobia in Amerika.
Do I want politicians to get their shit together? Yes!
I want politicians to get their shit chopped apart
K link me to the most recent time somebody got murdered in Canada for flying a pride flag since it happens everywhere at the same rate.
Better be in the last week BTW.
The rates are not the same everywhere. Perhaps one of the best reports for what you are looking for can be found from https://transrespect.org/en/press/
It's nice that you link to the site that puts out the trans murder monitoring. You should probably look up how the USA usually scores in that before you embarass yourself further.
Calls for violence against queer people are being broadcast everywhere, not just in red states. Also learn to care about people trapped in red states.
What do you mean? Some massive nerd on here the other day was telling me how its totally easy to move, and people who don't are just choosing to stay poor and marginalized!
I live less than 2 hours from the Canadian border in one of the most progressive states and there's trucks in town painted red white and blue with 3% logos and the moaning labia shit.
There's another one with two stickers on the back window "kill your local pedophile" with somebody getting shot execution style and "democrats are pedophiles"
Everywhere in America 30 minutes outside a major city is like that.
Yup - northern state, near Canada, usually blue voters. Regularly see thin blue line stickers, confederate flags, punisher skulls, thin blue line themed punisher skulls, “protect our children” slogans n shit…hell I’ve seen at least a couple black suns on cars around here, which is a lot more mask off than I expected (and waaaaaay more alarming)
Moan abe or however they took it. Means come.and take it apparently it's what the Spartans said to the Persians at Thermopoli.
An ironic line because if you learned history from something other than a homoerotic Zac Snyder movie you would know the Persians responded with "k" then killed them all
Molon labe.
then sparta lost their king, his honor guard, the elite of their army AND a highly defensible pass that they were supposed to be able to hold for months
and this all happened in a few days.
Yeah, those are hillbillies - they are all over the place. Many of them are actually homosexual believe it or not. If we are talking bumper stickers though, can't say I've come across many anti-LGBT ones. Mostly confederate flags and black and white flags with blue stripes all in the generic grab bag of generalized hatred. I stay away from those people / areas as it's just not my crowd, but not sure what this has to do with the safety of LGBT visitors to the US. Linking these stickers to that is a pretty broad sweep.
generalized hatred.
not sure what this has to do with the safety of LGBT visitors to the US
Until Democratic centrists sacrifice trans people to pass various "must pass" bills after House GOP reps put poison-pill regulations into them and try to make a new Hyde Amendment, prohibiting Federal support for gender-affirming care and opening the door to outright legal discrimination federally.
And that's assuming they don't lose the Senate/Presidency.
Democratic Centralists would never do something like this
Democrat Centrists tho..
Democratic Centralists:
Demoncrat/Republikhan "Centrists":
that's it, i depicted them as the wojak and us as the chad. Communism has been achieved
ITT: Crying americans because other countries realize what a shit show america is
Hate crimes.
and 
cannot resist the temptation of committing hate crimes, and the pleasure they get from making innocents suffer.I don't know what these things are. Are you suggesting that there's an exception for crimes committed against these people?
the relevant states have made a legal push to criminalize being queer in public
What do laws have to do with police?
Lobotomized level of take
You literally just misquoted me. If your intention was to completely misrepresent my position for the purposes of...? Good job!
But it's not legal. And as we've already covered, they don't need it to be.
legal and extralegal actions by the police are both effectively legal in the US because we effectively don't prosecute police. as the laws illegalize queerness, what actions the police are permitted to take expands.
"Effectively legal" is not remotely the same thing as "legal". Do the cops kill all sorts of people unjustly? Yes. That's not the conversation we are having right now. The conversation we are having pertains to being queer in America and it's supposed dangers. And not just "dangerous" but dangerous to the extent that a country issues a warning to a group of people about literally just entering an entire country of 300 million people.
Completely derailing the conversation in order to "win" an irrelevant one. Shocking.
The derailing started as soon as you entered the thread, you bellend.
"Effectively legal" is not remotely the same thing as "legal"
It effectively is the same; hence "effectively legal"
being queer in America and it's supposed dangers
drown in your own piss, dickless
yeah, you're right. it's exactly the kind of reply debate perverts masking their bigotry deserve.
Exactly the kind of reply I'd expect from a liberal being insulted after they deny violence is happening against minorities.
Total exceptions? No. But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people. That, and some politicians are encouraging hate crimes against them with hateful rhetoric about them being "groomers" and whatnot.
But many states still allow people to get reduced sentences via the gay panic defense for killing LGBTQ people.
You say that like it's explicitly allowed by the state. It isn't. It's a legal defense lawyers use in court. Whether or not it's legitimate is determined by a jury.
Wow, it is almost like a place where juries let people off on the gay panic defense is a place that is unsafe to be as a trans person.
weird how "gay panic" is a defense allowed by the courts, but an appeal to jury nullification is not.
Are other countries juries exposed to our media ecosystem (in the same way) which the US government supports and which pushes vile transphobia constantly?
Some other countries (and just a couple US states) explicitly ban the gay panic defense.
If you don't have any interest in a good faith discussion, you can just go ahead and stop replying to me please.
Good faith? I'm sorry, could you be more specific? What do you mean?
the state, inside and outside courtrooms, to shut down hate crimes.
Well that's a very easy thing to say but I'm afraid you're going to have to be more specific.
funny how we can defend property through a system of laws and enforcement but that's not specific enough to stop hate crimes
don't know what? laws that criminalize being queer should be stricken from the books and the people who do hate crimes should be punished. both of those elements are being rolled back in the US and you're being obtuse.
laws that criminalize being queer should be stricken from the books
There are no such laws in existence in this country.
Meanwhile in reality, there is still plenty of shit on the books that will be enforced again if the conservative Supreme Court changes precedent and new laws are being passed with the ultimate goal of exterminating trans people.
You need to learn that whether something is explicit or not doesn't matter as much as what is happening in effect.
Yes, because no jury members live in the US corporate media ecosystem which pushes vile transphobia constantly with the support of the US government.
You aren't able to read a one sentence reply? Is that your position?
Or is it that you dont want to engage with the content and are just saying bullshit instead of being thoughtful?
You aren't able to read a one sentence reply?
Not only am I able, but I did. Anything else you'd like to fabricate about me?
I'm somewhere in between "you can't read" and "you're a debate pervert". I decided to settle at "it's both".
Well, you sure didn't act like it based on your previous response, and you still haven't responded to the sentence meaningfully, so.., the latter then?
Do you just not want to engage with the content?
I didn't respond meaningfully because the reply was not meaningful. It was just fabricated lies.
This?
Yes, because no jury members live in the US corporate media ecosystem which pushes vile transphobia constantly with the support of the US government.
This is lies?
Are you a naive or just willfully ignorant about how the US media apparatus works?
That's clearly not what I was referring to. I don't engage with bad faith actors. Goodbye.
Kay snowflake. Rather you leave than keep being hysterical about something that doesn't affect you and that you know nothing about.
You say that like it's explicitly allowed by the state.
It is. Keeping it a valid legal defense is a policy choice. Some states banned it, they chose to. Other states have not, they decided not to. That's politics.
But it's not a valid legal defense. You cannot ban a lawyer from putting it forward as a legal defense.
You literally can, just like any number of other valid bases for objections to arguments put forward. If the judge rules it to be such a defense, it would be struck from the record and the jury instructed to disregard it, and if the lawyer keeps on it, they would be held in contempt of court. Furthermore, if it is plainly a case of such a defense and the judge lets it fly, the prosecution can claim mistrial.
Perhaps there are other ways of banning it, but that is the obvious one in the American framework.
There literally is in most states, depending on the judge:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense
There literally is not. That's a legal defense that lawyers use. It doesn't instantly exonerate the crime.
depending on the judge
To treat it as a valid legal defense is an abomination and judges have countless times ruled in favor of the perpetrator on just the basis of that defense.
That's not a legal exception, that's just a corrupt judge. Do you not have those in Canada?
Do you understand how precedent works in the US court system? I mean, I fully agree that US judges and laws are corrupt, but it doesn't change the fact that those laws and judges are still upheld by the state
Yes I understand. I asked a question, would you like to answer it? Did you not notice that people use this same defense in other countries?
Yes, there are homophobic laws elsewhere as well, it doesn't change the status quo in US
We've already been over this several times now, there are no homophobic laws in the US.
The topic of conversation is a warning to "queer" people about going into the US, as if it is more dangerous than the country they're leaving. So yes, it matters.
There are no homophobic laws in the US
You can keep telling that to yourself, it doesn't change the reality
Also US is objectively more dangerous than Canada for LGBTQIA+ people
I mean you can keep making up that the gay panic defense is a law but it won't change reality.
Also US is objectively more dangerous than Canada for LGBTQIA+ people
But for some reason no one can tell me how. All they can do is attack and insult.
LEARN THE FUCKING ACRONYM!!!!
