can anyone explain the mechanics of how someone like this believes Jesus "saved" us? it has never made an ounce of sense to me
According to evangelicals... all humans are sinful. We've all violated God's laws in some way. And since God is a perfect being and his laws are perfect, all humans are deserving of basically infinite punishment i.e. being tortured beyond comprehension for eternity in hell. But because God loves humans so much, he decided to sacrifice... himself... to pay the debt we owe him. So Jesus comes to earth and died to be the "sacrifice for our sins".
Now logically, you would think that Jesus doing this would save everyone, right? It would still be a fucked-up system but everyone gets to heaven so no harm, no foul. Buuuuuut no, that's not how evangelicals see it. Jesus dying was only half of the equation. The other half is, we as people need "accept" this. Meaning, we have to admit to God that we are sinners and deserve hell. And we have to believe Jesus' sacrifice is the only thing that can save us and we put our faith in that to save us. Only THEN do we get our ticket to heaven punched. Everyone else still gets hell. Why it HAS to be this way... dunno it's just God's arbitrary rules.
(NOTE: I've taken more of an Arminian approach to explaining this - that's the school of evangelicalism that emphasizes human choice in this whole thing. There's also Calvinism, which states it's not about human choice so much as God picks who he will save and who he will condemn. It's even more fucked up IMO but probably more accurate biblically. John Calvin himself is rumored to have said "there are babies a span long in hell", and while it's not a fashionable view now Calvinists historically have had no problem thinking that God condemns children and babies to hell).
Yeah, if anyone really thinks about this its clear God had to be playing by someone else's rules. Its just too fucked in the head to create a sinful creation and then make up a rule that you have to sacrifice your son (and self) to save everyone. You could just save everyone if you were calling the shots.
That’s what’s annoys me most about it. Like why should I be thankful if he saves me from a system he intentionally architected.
Right. Just ignoring all the details and stories or saying they are nothing but metaphor does nothing to save the premise. It's absurd.
Definitely - if Hitler accepted Jesus in the bunker he is in heaven, but the kindest, sweetest grandpa in the world who was only ever kind and generous to everyone but not a Christian is in hell.
FWIW that’s not actually the case. At least according to Catholic views you don’t actually have to be Christian as long as you’re a good person.
I’ve definitely heard that from some, but I do also remember one of my Catholic friends showing me some writing from the Pope or catechism where it basically said “if you’re a good person that’s basically accepting Jesus even if you don’t actually believe in him, so you’re good” but Catholics are a lot less fire and brimstone than most other chrsitians in my experience.
do other denominations have the same basic understanding or is it different depending on how insane your church is? The idea that Jesus died for our sins isn't just evangelicals, it's universal in christianity
i believe most denominations believe in Original Sin in some form or another
I would say most flavors of Christianity basically view humans and sinful and fallen and in violation of God's standards, and Jesus' death was meant to either be a sacrifice made by God to himself, or a sort of example of God's love.
The weirdest part is that it's presented as a grave sacrifice. Like, what? What did God or Jesus lose? Jesus didn't die for anyone's sins - he's like, fine! He was invincible the whole time. He's right there! Religious fanatics literally group-cry at the concept of the sacrifice. But how is it a sacrifice if you don't fucking lose something?
God didn't plan Jesus?
God had unprotected sex with mary?
What's going on here?
Lol right? Like its fucking god... wouldn't it just like... make it happen one way or the other? Pigeon-holing your modern values into ancient legend is such a weird mental leap
Every time I see these types of posts, I remember why internet Atheism was so popular, particularly in the Bush / early Obama years when these people had cultural significance. It provided a lot of people with refutations of this bullshit they probably see a lot of. Unfortunately, we all know the problems with New Atheism.
Ahh yes, Jesus’s dad, God. Who he also is. And also there is a spirit. He’s all 3
It still astounds me that they don't see how the Trinity is completely polytheistic.
It’s not because they are all ONE. We arent like those other poly religions. And you saying otherwise is an attack on my first amendment rights sir!
So God was just messing around, and oops! made a baby? Pretty sure that's heretical.
