I had always assumed that if a man had gotten a woman pregnant, then if that pregnancy is carried to term, both partners should be financially responsible for the child regardless whether the man had wanted to have the child or not. The mindset being "they got them pregnant, so you have to face the consequences'".
I was talking with some people online, and they asserted that if the man did not want to have the child, then they should be able to apply to be resolved of any financial responsibility towards caring for it. I was at first against this proposal, but I feel like I now understand it better. Our current legislation was created at a time where abortion was tantamount to murder, and since it was illegal, an obligation of financial responsibility was the only way to ensure that women weren't stranded with children they couldn't afford to raise. But now that we live in a world where abortion is legal (for now), and where abortion procedures are safer than carrying the child to term, there doesn't seem to be a good argument for men still needing to be financially responsible for unwanted children. Men probably would still need to assist in paying for the procedure, but outside of that, I think they had a point. Please explain to me if there is anything I'm failing to consider here.
I also want to apologize for the binary language I used in writing this. I tried at first to write this in a more inclusive way, but I struggled wrapping my head around it. If anyone can educate me in how to write in a way that doesn't disclude non-binary comrades, I would appreciate it.
To all the horrified cishet men realising that sex sometimes makes babies: get pegged, get a vasectomy, swear off sex with fertile people with wombs forever, 69, go full volcel.
Don't worry it's just two MRA people who made accounts whose entire posting history is arguing in this thread. Report and move on I guess
but why pp sometimes make baby??!?!!? why date sterile women or become sterile me?!?!? why eat booty and peg me only?!?!?
:le-pol-face:
Or even have a mature conversation with your partner with regards to birth control and what to do when it fails, knowing that they could change their mind as actually being in the situation is different than imaging it, or even date a person that does not want kids. And accept the risk if you want to.
Sorry, no. My slogan from now on is: Get pegged! Date GILFs! Go gay!
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I just dowbeared your comment.
FAQ
What does this mean?
The amount of karma (points) on your comment and Chapo account has decreased by one.
Why did you do this?
There are several reasons I may deem a comment to be unworthy of positive or neutral karma. These include, but are not limited to:
Rudeness towards other Chapos,
Spreading incorrect information,
Sarcasm not correctly flagged with a /s.
Lack of pee pee poo poo
Am I banned from the Chapo ?
No - not yet. But you should refrain from making comments like this in the future. Otherwise I will be forced to issue an additional downbear, which may put your commenting and posting privileges in jeopardy.
I don’t believe my comment deserved a downbear. Can you un-downbear it?
Sure, mistakes happen. But only in exceedingly rare circumstances will I undo a downbear. If you would like to issue an appeal, shoot me a private message explaining what I got wrong. I tend to respond to Chapo PMs within several minutes. Do note, however, that over 99.9% of downbear appeals are rejected, and yours is likely no exception.
How can I prevent this from happening in the future?
Accept the downbear and move on. But learn from this mistake: your behavior will not be tolerated on Chapo.chat. I will continue to issue downbears until you improve your conduct. Remember: Chapo.chat is privilege, not a right.
"Your honor, I'm a communist and was an immature frat boy when I fucked that chick... I didn't know babies are made that way."
gay: somehow tries to use Engels to argue that state imposed perpetuation of a partiarchal system is justified because.... reasons?
When you can clearly read
If you don't think that our current judicial system is heavily patriarchal then I don't even know what to say...
What are you even saying anymore?
I don't even know what you're saying tbh.
I'm making fun of your stupid understanding of... everything. And making fun of the fact that you're so against telling adults that they have the right to choose the type of sex that they're comfortable with. And that pp in vag sometimes makes babies.
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u might want to dial it back a bit lil homie, the troll is becoming too obvious
Tbh it's weird to see peeps who call themselves "leftists" suddenly riding on the personal responsibility train. That's all.
"Lower classes" and "non whites" actually struggle the hardest to keep their parental rights. There's a strong effort on the white capitalist side to stop them (us) from having a family the way they (we) want. They (people like me) get their children torn away from them. We dunk on you for wanting to leave them for the consequences of your actions.
Whites will see brown Latin families get separated in concentration camps in the US and then be like: damn, they are so bummed out that they have to pay child support
What even is the point of what you're saying here? Obviously white capitalists will do stuff to stop "us" (yes, me too, not that you care) from personal autonomy.
You are acting like "having to pay child support" is an issue between the "lower classes and other races". It's not. We struggle to keep our families, not with understanding that sex makes babies sometimes.
Like you said, fuckusamericans.
Please go full volcel
To all the cishet women realizing that sex sometimes makes babies: take a celibacy pledge, don't have sex until marriage, swear off sex with fertile people forever, 69, go to church and come to Jesus. I recommend listening to Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson as well. Remember, because of lobsters and hierarchies... you should be trad.
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Hmm seems like some projection going on here... hope you are ok. Might need to either hog out or log out.
Forgot this one: "Be prepared to get an abortion or give birth"
love the implication that married women don't have abortions 🤡
It was obviously a parody of your comment.
I think you might need hog out or log out.
I'm okay with telling women they have the choice to abstain from sexual activity that can get them pregnant even when they're using birth control if they don't like the possibility of needing an abortion or to give birth. This is what adults do and it applies to STIs as well.
This whole "this is what adults do" rhetoric is straight out of the right-wing playbook, as I've said many times before.
The solution is simple, state child support and no more shaming making this an individual problem. I thought we lived in a society? Not some kind of thatcherite hell-hole.
No, they say you have to get married to fuck. I say you have to do sexual activities that fit your threat level. If the 1% failure rate of birth control is too much for you, go give head and get fucked in the ass or choose partners who have no way of getting pregnant (older cis women, cis women with no wombs, trans women... cis men?)
You're gonna have to wait will we reach full space gay communism to fuck babes raw, sorry
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We're gonna have to wait till fully space gay communism to have college education and healthcare absolutely for free, not through taxes. Right now I'm okay with telling men to get pegged, get sterilized or be celibate if the don't want to face the tiniest possibility of paying for child support (which... could also not happen if the child is adopted).
And right now I'm ok with telling men to not pay for something they don't want. If you don't want the child, you shouldn't be forced to pay.
Cause you're dumb
How'bout you invest in some condoms, practice your pull-out game? Or maybe stop putting your dick in people who can conceive?
What's funny is that you're acting like leaving the child without access to food, healthcare, housing and education is not a super common thing to do nowadays lmao. Men still do that, don't worry
Thanks Jordan Peterson for the personal responsibility "buck up buckaroo" pep talk.
Yeah I know, so let's have a support system in place. Maybe if there wasn't such a burden for support, those men might even be involved positively in the kid's life. Our current system right now is just creating all sorts of negative incentives to just dump the kid.
:agony-consuming:
"Sorry kid, I engaged in consensual sexual activity that could get your other parent pregnant and decided I couldn't vibe with you. I know you're the product of my actions and that the smallest thing I could do is make sure you don't die in your first 18 years of life... maybe even less if your other parent had a partner who was willing to adopt you... but yeah the state is just so oppressive"
What even are material conditions.
MRAs be like: I'm so mad when I can't dump children in the middle of the forest. Why do they have to be human people smh
Precisely, which is why I'm proposing something to replace our current system, i.e. make the material conditions better for all parties.
"Precisely, which is why I’m proposing something to replace our current system, i.e. make the material conditions better for all parties." - The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State, Friedrich Engels
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No. I adhere to "person who did sex that could end in conception and the person who decided that abortion and adoption weren't for for them has to help the child live because that's a human person".
Again, sorry that current society makes having sex that can end in conception so inconvenient. Jokerfying as we speak
Sorry that this is such a struggle session for you. Clearly I haven't done the proper hermeneutics on engels and marx to be able to come to the conclusion that if someone doesn't want a child that they should be forced to pay support when it's not only concievable, but doable right now to have a system of universal support in place.
Marx lost so many kids, I'm sure he understood how vulnerable they are when they're little. And then would dunk on you for being so immature when it comes to sex
Marx also had financial support... from Engels. So is it hard to ask for societal support?
Also, Marx wasn't the ideal father, and I imagine if you were living back then you'd be doing this weird shaming that you're doing now, ironically.
Marx was struggling HARD with money lmao
Yeah which is why he had to resort to help from Engels. I didn't say otherwise.
You're acting like its comparable to abandoning a child with a parent who can't cover all the child's need? NGL, kinda cringe
You're not abandoning it if there's a social system in place to take care of the child.
There isn't one
There isn't medicare for all so then fuck those people too I guess.
K, fuck usamericans
At least we can agree on that.
:le-pol-face:
:le-pol-face:
THE VOLCEL POLICE HAVE BEEN ABOLISHED, COMRADE
CUMMING IS A PROLETARIAN ACTIVITY